Understanding the universe.

[RootsBooster 24]

Not in my opinion. Unless you want to get into a discussion about how the mind is a function of information, and in theory could be encoded in some way other than the brain (but then it would still be a physical encoding in some form, just separate from the body)...

 

If we agree that the mind is a product of the brain's processes, I would say that the body and mind are separate in the same way that software and hardware are separate.

[dutch 68]

Dutch, if the mind is not responsible for your awareness, can you explain what is?

 

Like I said this knowledge comes as an experience. This is not a university topic, our schools don't teach meditation.

Still I am trying to explain it even though to fully understand and see what is responsible one needs to first become less attached with what we think we are. In order to become conscious of what this awareness is involves focussing on being aware without getting distracted by our minds that keep telling us there is nothing beyond this mind.

This doesn't happen or come automatically in day to day life. There are techniques and ways to move closer and closer to the answer you ask for. They can reduce the constant flow of thoughts and slowly create spaces of silence that increase over time where you become fully conscious of this awareness. You are it, everybody is, when you are aware free from mindful distraction it comes as an awakening shock like you wake up out of a dream.

[RootsBooster 24]

Like I said this knowledge comes as an experience. This is not a university topic, our schools don't teach meditation.

Still I am trying to explain it even though to fully understand and see what is responsible one needs to first become less attached with what we think we are. In order to become conscious of what this awareness is involves focussing on being aware without getting distracted by our minds that keep telling us there is nothing beyond this mind.

This doesn't happen or come automatically in day to day life. There are techniques and ways to move closer and closer to the answer you ask for. They can reduce the constant flow of thoughts and slowly create spaces of silence that increase over time where you become fully conscious of this awareness. You are it, everybody is, when you are aware free from mindful distraction it comes as an awakening shock like you wake up out of a dream.

 

So, you think the mind isn't responsible for your awareness but you can't explain what is. Can you at least explain why you think it isn't the mind?

[Waldo 96]

If we agree that the mind is a product of the brain's processes, I would say that the body and mind are separate in the same way that software and hardware are separate.

 

Are they separate though, or is the notion of them being separate, just an illusion, more 'software' running if you like?

[RootsBooster 24]

Are they separate though, or is the notion of them being separate, just an illusion, more 'software' running if you like?

 

It's a fine line and I think it depends on how you define 'separate'.

Is the eyeball separate from the skull? Is the fuel separate from the tank? Is the tree separate from the ground? I would say yes to all of those but others may see it differently.

[Waldo 96]

You realise that we can only see a very limited spectrum of electromagnetic radiation.

 

Sorry, are you making a statement or asking a question? If the former, how would you know what I realise? If the later, you're missing a '?' at the end of your question, and possibly a 'Do' at the beginning. Whichever, yes, I am aware there are other vibrations of the electromagnetic spectrum beyond our visual perception.

 

But that hasn't stopped us discovering and categorising all the wavelengths that are outside our direct sensory perception. We even understand that a lobster can see more colours than we can. We don't know what this 'looks' like of course, any more than a red/green colourblind person can describe the difference between red and green (for that matter, you try describing it, it can't be broken down to anything less than it already is).

 

Quite so, though none of which disputes my point. Our minds deal in contrast, we need an 'up' in order to have a 'down', we need other colours in order to have 'orange'. Without those other colours we wouldn't be aware of orange. We may not even have understood the nature and range of the electromagnetic spectrum (or perhaps our discovery of it would have been delayed).

 

What other 'oranges' are there out there, that exist, but we just don't perceive...

 

We have the word 'physical' for communication purposes though, and historical reasons. It's all well and good knowing that imagination is a physical process of the brain, but that's not helpful in most conversations.

 

I'd suggest it's not helpful to employ a word that implies a subset of reality, when you take it to mean the totality of reality. For me, it's a flimsy nonsensical and pointless reference that says nothing at all about the nature of reality.

 

---------- Post added 11-11-2017 at 19:21 ----------

 

It's a fine line and I think it depends on how you define 'separate'.

Is the eyeball separate from the skull? Is the fuel separate from the tank? Is the tree separate from the ground? I would say yes to all of those but others may see it differently.

 

Well, for what it's worth, I'd just say it's only separate while you think it is; separation (seeing one thing as separate to another) is wholly a function of our minds. Separation only exists in our minds.

[dutch 68]

So, you think the mind isn't responsible for your awareness but you can't explain what is. Can you at least explain why you think it isn't the mind?

 

I know mind isn't responsible. If I explained you what is responsible you would be too shocked, for that you need to loosen up a little and get ready to handle it. How could I think it isn't the mind when I am in a state of enlightening silence.

 

Why bother, what is the point, lets keep everything the way we see it now?

That feeling happens to majority who will discuss this topic. Only few will investigate this and find these gaps and silences beyond the mind and experience the awakening that comes with it.

It doesn't earn you any extra money, it wont make you more respectable or fulfil your material wishes and dreams.

It does find the meaning of real individual freedom, a form of happiness that is not dependant on material changes and it will show you that you are the master and mind was only a calculative slave you use at times.

[Robin-H 11]

I know mind isn't responsible. If I explained you what is responsible you would be too shocked, for that you need to loosen up a little and get ready to handle it. How could I think it isn't the mind when I am in a state of enlightening silence.

 

Why bother, what is the point, lets keep everything the way we see it now?

That feeling happens to majority who will discuss this topic. Only few will investigate this and find these gaps and silences beyond the mind and experience the awakening that comes with it.

It doesn't earn you any extra money, it wont make you more respectable or fulfil your material wishes and dreams.

It does find the meaning of real individual freedom, a form of happiness that is not dependant on material changes and it will show you that you are the master and mind was only a calculative slave you use at times.

 

No please, go on I can’t wait..

[Waldo 96]

I know mind isn't responsible. If I explained you what is responsible you would be too shocked, for that you need to loosen up a little and get ready to handle it. How could I think it isn't the mind when I am in a state of enlightening silence.

 

Why bother, what is the point, lets keep everything the way we see it now?

 

Why bother?! Well, presumably it's a topic of interest to you, and you get some value from exploring it? It also raises a number to interesting deep philosophical questions that others may find value in investigating.

 

There is also a lot to be said for the practice of quietening the busy mind and feeling our aliveness, without so much cognitive engagement going on.

 

Though for sure though, a lot of people will be resistant to the kind of things you're saying.

 

Anyhow...

 

Isn't 'knowing' a function of the 'mind'? If 'I' is not 'mind' (that engages in the activity of knowing), then is the knowing you refer to, a different kind of knowing?

[apelike 10]

I know mind isn't responsible. If I explained you what is responsible you would be too shocked, for that you need to loosen up a little and get ready to handle it.

 

 

I wont be shocked as I have experienced many types of mind altering drugs and know how the mind plays tricks so please explain more.

[ENG601PM 10]

Dutch, the trouble is that you are assuming that you have high levels of control over yourself.

 

Troublingly for you, there's a significant and growing suspicion that you may have absolutely no control at all. In other words, you are kidding yourself that you are kind of special, a bit like seeing animal shapes in clouds.

 

This is interesting. http://bigthink.com/videos/daniel-dennett-explains-consciousness-and-free-will

[RootsBooster 24]

I know mind isn't responsible. If I explained you what is responsible you would be too shocked, for that you need to loosen up a little and get ready to handle it. How could I think it isn't the mind when I am in a state of enlightening silence.

 

Why bother, what is the point, lets keep everything the way we see it now?

That feeling happens to majority who will discuss this topic. Only few will investigate this and find these gaps and silences beyond the mind and experience the awakening that comes with it.

It doesn't earn you any extra money, it wont make you more respectable or fulfil your material wishes and dreams.

It does find the meaning of real individual freedom, a form of happiness that is not dependant on material changes and it will show you that you are the master and mind was only a calculative slave you use at times.

A lot of words just to say that you either can't or won't tell us why you know the mind isn't responsible for awareness (some might even consider it a cop-out).

 

Also you seem to think you know what others are or aren't aware of, and what they can or can't handle.

 

Arrogance wrapped in humbleness (post #1219).

Edited November 12, 2017 by RootsBooster