Is our Country's system fair to all.

[hyper]

It's not. But we're talking about a system that humans have set up. Private schools are not an innate feature of the world that we just have to suffer.

If we create systems within society, they should be as fair as possible, shouldn't they.

All systems that humans have set up have their faults. What is fair for one is not fair for another. I'd like to see an example that is fair for all. If you can, show me one.

 

You could argue it's not fair that the kid in one class has a worse education than the kid in the year below because by luck, the older kid has a disruptive cohort of students in his year, whereas the younger lad has a well behaved cohort. That's life.

 

FWIW, I personally am not for private education, I think the state system is a good one.

 

I could sit here and say its not fair that David Beckham successfully exists in systems designed by humans that worship football and good looks. But I don't, I make the best of what I have.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2016 at 09:58 ----------

 

Has to be said though, envy isn't at all helpful.

 

Also, it's a bit hypocritical, while we envy people who are more privilaged than us, we fail to consider how privilaged we are, in relation to people who are much worse of than us (and there are plenty of those).

 

Better to consider what we have to be grateful for.

 

amen to that bro

[Ms Macbeth]

It shouldn't be, you would think it depended simply on talent.

 

But, again, it's a lot about who you know, contacts, networking, who can pull a few strings for you, etc. and, generally speaking, the well-heeled have better, more useful contacts, and access to the more privileged.

 

Similarly, the best drama schools/theatres are in London where living costs are extortionate, and only the better off can support their offspring for years until their careers take off.

 

Acting has one of the highest unemployment rates, I wouldn't encourage my grandchildren into it as a career. Nepotism and 'who you know' doesn't only happen in the top echelons of society. It may not be as rife now as when industry was at its peak, but it was almost impossible to get into some organisations without having relatives already working there.

 

Being an MP doesn't pay more than many accessible professions unless they can achieve a senior role. I know several people from ordinary backgrounds earning as much or more than MPs.

 

Nobody said life would be fair. I'm just grateful to live in a society where not only is there a safety net, but there are chances for some people to improve their circumstances. But not everyone wants to rise to the top financially, or to be in the public eye, in fact lots of us are quite contended with our lot.

[sutty27]

Usually trotted out by those suffering with Grandiose delusions

 

Nope, its trotted out by people that are happy with their life despite not being famous, omnipotent, wealthy, or powerful.

[Cyclone]

I wouldn't put it that way - they are part of 93% of children whose parents won't or can't pay for their education. I'm sure there are other benefits from being a pupil at a state school. So perhaps the "posh kids" are at a life disadvantage themselves?

Or are you saying, that those educated, in part or wholly, independently of state control are better people?

 

Better would be a value judgement. This is about career prospects created by contacts gained at school and/or a more effective education.

The 93% (who mainly fall into the can't pay camp) don't have this structural advantage.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2016 at 10:42 ----------

 

Has to be said though, envy isn't at all helpful.

 

Also, it's a bit hypocritical, while we envy people who are more privilaged than us, we fail to consider how privilaged we are, in relation to people who are much worse of than us (and there are plenty of those).

 

Better to consider what we have to be grateful for.

 

Is it? I'm sure that's the message the most privileged would like everyone to believe, because then you won't demand anymore.

 

And yes, just by being born in the UK we are all very privileged compared to a lot of the worlds population. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to eliminate structural barriers within our society (by which I mean the UK society).

We can't fix the world, not until we have a single world government anyway. But collectively we are responsible for how the UK operates.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2016 at 10:43 ----------

 

All systems that humans have set up have their faults. What is fair for one is not fair for another. I'd like to see an example that is fair for all. If you can, show me one.

I agree, no system is perfect.

Are you arguing that the current one is the best it can be? Or that because there will always be faults we shouldn't seek to improve it?

 

You could argue it's not fair that the kid in one class has a worse education than the kid in the year below because by luck, the older kid has a disruptive cohort of students in his year, whereas the younger lad has a well behaved cohort. That's life.

That's life is a cop out. It's a failure to accept any obligation to try to improve things where possible.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2016 at 10:48 ----------

 

I'm just grateful to live in a society where not only is there a safety net, but there are chances for some people to improve their circumstances.

 

Social mobility in the UK has fallen and is continuing to fall.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/22/social-mobility-data-charts

Edited February 25, 2016 by Cyclone

[Waldo]

Is it?

 

I think it is; we often feel hard done by, because others were born in to more fortunate circumstances than us, yet we don't take in to account, how lucky we are, relative to people who are starving or find themselves in the middle of nasty civil wars or genocide.

 

I'm sure that's the message the most privileged would like everyone to believe, because then you won't demand anymore.

 

It may well also be their message; that in itself, doesn't invalidate it.

 

But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to eliminate structural barriers within our society (by which I mean the UK society).

 

I wouldn't disagree; but do you mean the barriers that block our own upward progress, to put us on a level with those who have more than us; or the barriers that block the progress of those below us, who want what we have?

 

I think, people tend to emphasise the former; and all in the name of creating a fairer society.

 

By the way; I'm just as guilty as the next man, when it comes to envy...

[ANGELFIRE1]

Which Royal was this and what were his or her grades?

 

 

"Prince Harry has got his A-level results, along with hundreds of thousands of other teenagers.

He got a B in art and a D in geography in the exams, St James's Palace said.

 

Prince Harry studied at Eton College. He dropped a third subject - history of art after his AS exams last year.

 

He plans to apply for Sandhurst military college after taking a gap year.

 

His brother, Prince William, passed three A-levels before going on to St Andrews university to study history of art.

 

Prince William got an A grade in geography, a B in history of art and a C in biology."

 

 

 

Extreemly doubtful qualifications of this level would have got Joe Bloggs a Uni place.

 

Angel1.

[hyper]

I agree, no system is perfect.

Are you arguing that the current one is the best it can be?

I'm not qualified to make that statement. In the big scheme of things I know very little about education system, economics, career prospects etc etc. If you were to put me on the spot, I'd say we have qualified appointed experts to look at each system and we have to put our trust in them. They may be incompetent, but I cant determine that.

Or that because there will always be faults we shouldn't seek to improve it?

Depends on what type of person you are. I know someone who is very unhappy with life because she always finds fault and argues that things could improve. A complainer in essence. She is not a happy person, but at the same time I recognise some of what she says is correct. Depends whether you like to embrace life and enjoy it for what it is or make life a struggle, complaining about all its faults

That's life is a cop out. It's a failure to accept any obligation to try to improve things where possible

Similar to the point above. But remember whatever we have or intend to improve has to be managed within constraints (usually economic). You said it yourself with the words "where possible", so copping out or not depends on what you see as being reasonably possible

[El Cid]

93%of us who have not had the silver spoon treatment find it much harder to enter into the privileged professions.

We as a Nation look down on certain systems in other Countries as being oppressive or corrupt but is ours any different when looked at closely .

 

That is why I feel reducing inheritance tax was wrong.

[Berberis]

"Prince Harry has got his A-level results, along with hundreds of thousands of other teenagers.

He got a B in art and a D in geography in the exams, St James's Palace said.

 

Extreemly doubtful qualifications of this level would have got Joe Bloggs a Uni place.

 

Angel1.

 

Harry didn't go to Uni though. He went to Eton, then took a gap year and then enlisted in the Army.

 

Back to my question about your comment below:

 

One of our "Royals" got into Uni with grades so low that if an oik had them they would have been laughed at for even applying to enter Uni.

 

So my answer would be no, it's certainly not fair to ALL.

 

Angel1.

 

Which "Royal" are you referring to as by your own admission, Harry never attended University.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Berberis

[JFKvsNixon]

"Prince Harry has got his A-level results, along with hundreds of thousands of other teenagers.

He got a B in art and a D in geography in the exams, St James's Palace said.

 

Prince Harry studied at Eton College. He dropped a third subject - history of art after his AS exams last year.

 

He plans to apply for Sandhurst military college after taking a gap year.

 

His brother, Prince William, passed three A-levels before going on to St Andrews university to study history of art.

 

Prince William got an A grade in geography, a B in history of art and a C in biology."

 

 

 

Extreemly doubtful qualifications of this level would have got Joe Bloggs a Uni place.

 

Angel1.

 

I hope that you're winding us up and this isn't a serious post!!!!