Sheffield Bus Changes

[Bert1 10]

I suspect that a lot of people got very wet at bus stops yesterday, as the petition to reverse the changes is currently growing at the rate of 10 new signatures a minute!!! Nothing like a bit of bad weather to unite people...

[Andy C 86]

I suspect that a lot of people got very wet at bus stops yesterday, as the petition to reverse the changes is currently growing at the rate of 10 new signatures a minute!!! Nothing like a bit of bad weather to unite people...

 

There is no denying there is a lot of disatisfaction with the bus services at present.

 

There is a small element of typical little Sheffielder who simply doesn't like change whether for the better or worse, there will be a number of people unhappy because their journey has got longer and a number of people unhappy because a cross-city link they used has been severed.

 

There are also some issues causing disatisfaction where there has been an ill judged decision to reduce frequency or bus sizes (in some cases old double deckers have been replaced with modern single deckers to upgrade the quality of the vehicle).

 

However I think the vast majority of disatisfaction is due to poor performance of the service with delays and cancellations - most of this is nothing to do with the network changes and more to do with traffic congestion, roadworks etc.

 

Buses that arrive in the City Centre via the Hallamshire Hospital such as the 6 or 120 have been hit bad by the closure of Glossop Road inbound for roadworks and buses that arrive in the City Centre via Shalesmoor/West Bar (31/31a/61/2/81/82/85/86) have also been delayed on the diversion around the road closed for the 'Grey to Green programme' roadworks - and those that arrive via Nursery Street (3,7,8,8a,83,83a) are probably hitting the same traffic congestion.

[leviathan13 350]

The changes have actually helped me out, so I can't really complain. The 24/25 going to Woodhouse now stop at the side of my gym, instead of me having to trail all the way in to town after a session; the 30 hasn't changed so I can still get to work reasonably well in a morning, and the 28 day citywide pass being reduced by a tenner is a very welcome saving...

 

So all in all, against the apparent trend, I'm fairly happy with what's happened.

[spilldig 190]

That isn't quite in the contact Stagecoach made the statement - that was in relation to the threat of implementing a Quality Contract bus system, as was being pushed in Tyne & Wear by Nexus PTE. (You can read the latest on that here: http://www.route-one.net/politics/incompetence-on-a-grand-scale/) That would involve banning commercial bus services and instead SYPTE drawing up the network, setting the fares and keeping the revenue, with operators invited to bid for contracts to operate routes on behalf of SYPTE. The taxpayer would be the one taking the financial risk of farebox revenue falling short of operating costs and funding the difference.

 

What we have now is a 'Voluntary bus Partnership' with a commercially operated network designed by the public sector SYPTE and the operators working in partnership to ensure it is all co-ordinated rather than buses competing with one another.

 

The aspirations of politicians was to have less buses on the road along with cheaper all operator tickets.

 

The aspirations of bus operators was to move on from a situation of running a high level of service with ticket prices too low to be profitable - therefore running less buses by cutting out duplication and competing services cuts costs and making the network more financially viable.

 

OK Andy, but who has cut the buses in this latest re-write? If it is SYPTE that's responsible for it, I can't see why they would want to cut services. The only people I can see who benefit are the bus operators, i'e more people crammed into fewer buses and not too bothered about loosing a few to cars or taxis.

Edited November 18, 2015 by spilldig

[dutch 68]

There aren't an infinite supply of spare buses and drivers sitting around 'just in case'.

 

The only thing they can do is 'adjust' services by turning buses short or cancelling trips to get the bus back in the right place to do it's next trip on time.

 

I did notice on Twitter that something Stagecoach are doing are diverting some 120s between Broomhill and University to avoid the roadworks and traffic jams, this does mean they miss out Hallamshire Hospital, however there are other buses that serve the hospital.

 

To be very honest. My services have been increased and gotten a bit better, they really did need it. But I do have the feeling they have gone from just too few buses to too many buses in our case.

I really believe they could take one or two buses from our line to help those suffering from too few buses without making my bus travel any worse.

[spilldig 190]

That isn't quite in the contact Stagecoach made the statement - that was in relation to the threat of implementing a Quality Contract bus system, as was being pushed in Tyne & Wear by Nexus PTE. (You can read the latest on that here: http://www.route-one.net/politics/incompetence-on-a-grand-scale/) That would involve banning commercial bus services and instead SYPTE drawing up the network, setting the fares and keeping the revenue, with operators invited to bid for contracts to operate routes on behalf of SYPTE. The taxpayer would be the one taking the financial risk of farebox revenue falling short of operating costs and funding the difference.

 

What we have now is a 'Voluntary bus Partnership' with a commercially operated network designed by the public sector SYPTE and the operators working in partnership to ensure it is all co-ordinated rather than buses competing with one another.

 

The aspirations of politicians was to have less buses on the road along with cheaper all operator tickets.

 

The aspirations of bus operators was to move on from a situation of running a high level of service with ticket prices too low to be profitable - therefore running less buses by cutting out duplication and competing services cuts costs and making the network more financially viable.

Just a note Andy. I think it was around 1997 that Mr Souter said about not interfering with the running of Stagecoach. I am just taking it that the same still applies, because I have never heard him say anything different since.

[mattleonard 10]

However I think the vast majority of disatisfaction is due to poor performance of the service with delays and cancellations - most of this is nothing to do with the network changes and more to do with traffic congestion, roadworks etc.

 

I can see that the traffic congestion and roadworks might cause delays, and in occasional cases re-routings, but why would they cause cancellations?

[Guest busdriver1]

I can see that the traffic congestion and roadworks might cause delays, and in occasional cases re-routings, but why would they cause cancellations?

 

How do you think a delayed bus gets back on time?

[DnAuK 10]

Fortunately I don't need to use buses in Sheffield all that often so haven't actually suffered too much from this so far. However, I have witnessed a lot more people at bus stops getting wet as I zipped by in the car.

 

I thinki Andy is right though in what he says here...

 

There is no denying there is a lot of disatisfaction with the bus services at present.

 

There is a small element of typical little Sheffielder who simply doesn't like change whether for the better or worse, there will be a number of people unhappy because their journey has got longer and a number of people unhappy because a cross-city link they used has been severed.

 

There are also some issues causing disatisfaction where there has been an ill judged decision to reduce frequency or bus sizes (in some cases old double deckers have been replaced with modern single deckers to upgrade the quality of the vehicle).

 

However I think the vast majority of disatisfaction is due to poor performance of the service with delays and cancellations - most of this is nothing to do with the network changes and more to do with traffic congestion, roadworks etc.

 

Buses that arrive in the City Centre via the Hallamshire Hospital such as the 6 or 120 have been hit bad by the closure of Glossop Road inbound for roadworks and buses that arrive in the City Centre via Shalesmoor/West Bar (31/31a/61/2/81/82/85/86) have also been delayed on the diversion around the road closed for the 'Grey to Green programme' roadworks - and those that arrive via Nursery Street (3,7,8,8a,83,83a) are probably hitting the same traffic congestion.

 

Some people will complain about ANY change, justified or not. Some people will also fail to recognise that other factors may be involved in delays and disruptions other than just the change to the service.

 

---------- Post added 18-11-2015 at 12:25 ----------

 

However, this bit is largely laughable.

 

Instead they need to examine judging by comments I've read and my own experiences...

- where are delays occurring and what is causing them. Could the timetable be changed to solve these issues?

- where is overcrowding happening and why? Are the buses not frequent enough, are the buses not big enough, or is it simply due to late running that buses are facing a queue of people for more than one bus?

- is there significant demand for journeys between places not currently directly served? Could an existing route be tweaked to cater for that demand?

- Could some routes in/out of the City Centre be reviewed to resolve issues with inconsistencies or traffic congestion. Are the buses serving the part of the City Centre passengers want to go to/from?

 

Isn't this what the original consultation was largely meant to address? Only not really of course. As someone involved in consultations on a regular basis I can smell one which says 'you have your views in advance, then we will do what we want anyway and afterwards be able to hold our hands up and say "well, we did give you the option to input"...'

[Andy C 86]

Fortunately I don't need to use buses in Sheffield all that often so haven't actually suffered too much from this so far. However, I have witnessed a lot more people at bus stops getting wet as I zipped by in the car.

 

I thinki Andy is right though in what he says here...

 

 

 

Some people will complain about ANY change, justified or not. Some people will also fail to recognise that other factors may be involved in delays and disruptions other than just the change to the service.

 

---------- Post added 18-11-2015 at 12:25 ----------

 

However, this bit is largely laughable.

 

 

 

Isn't this what the original consultation was largely meant to address? Only not really of course. As someone involved in consultations on a regular basis I can smell one which says 'you have your views in advance, then we will do what we want anyway and afterwards be able to hold our hands up and say "well, we did give you the option to input"...'

 

A proposal was made public for consultation and changes were made based on public comments.

 

Bradway Community Action Group and Dore Village Society both engaged with the consultation as well as individuals and there are quite clearly differences to the Bradway and Dore services in the final implentation compared to the original so they did listen.

 

Of course as with a lot of things in Sheffield, people either cannot be bothered to engage with the consultation or make unreasonable demands then complain when the result don't suit them.

 

What I don't like with the way the consulation was done is there were some changes that got no mention in the consultation such as changes to the times of last buses and changes to City Centre routes, there was also no public consultation on the amended proposals.

[mattleonard 10]

How do you think a delayed bus gets back on time?

 

I assume you are cryptically pointing out that the bus companies will replace the later service with the delayed one. Given that there are currently issues with buses often not stopping because they are full, do you not think that customer's should reasonably expect a) that the bus company don't pull buses because they're not going to make it on time, b) that where there are known delays such as roadworks, they mitigate against them, c) not cynically try to pull the wool over our eyes by (as it seems) turning off tracking for whole routes?

[SpiderPete 10]

There is no denying there is a lot of disatisfaction with the bus services at present.

 

There is a small element of typical little Sheffielder who simply doesn't like change whether for the better or worse, there will be a number of people unhappy because their journey has got longer and a number of people unhappy because a cross-city link they used has been severed.

 

 

Yes I agree a lot of people will moan for the sake of the change eg don't like a change/wont accept the change, after all its the Sheffield Forum - the place of moaners.

 

I for one like the change, although it hasn't affected me much, I use the 52 bus and although not as many as before and don't come in 3`s or 4`s.

 

I have been out other days at weekend and always got a bus, although I don't know where they are going but if it is heading into town I am okay to work out where I am.

 

Whats worked for me is the pricing, instead of using the £13.50 tram and stagecoach bus I now get the £15 - 7 day citywide so I can use on any bus and the tram, although it is only £1.50 more I spend this at weekend when I have to catch a first bus which means I am saving.

 

Its a case get used to this as it wont change and can only get worse when more cuts happen.