The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[GhostRiders 15]

I’m a Green supporter (ex-Labour) and I would say the hope amongst many Labour supporters is that the weight of grass roots support for the EU, and the fact that the vast majority of the parliamentary party are pro-remain should be enough to force opinion down the right track. It’s worked to extent with Labour official policy now advocating the softest of Brexits. The party is not doing a bad job as an opposition on this, gradually pulling the agenda away from hard Brexit.

 

I agree with this but that doesn't actually address the point of Corbynites (as opposed to your average 'Labour supporter') either burying their head in the sand or out right denying the fact that Corbyn himself is a Brexiteer (whether hard or soft is somewhat irrelevant).

 

It just seems to me that the 'cult of Corbyn' refuses to acknowledge his stance on the subject even it's in direct contrast to their own hard held views. Do you not think that this blind devotion is somewhat worrying?

[Stoatwobbler 10]

A lot of truth in this.

 

Corbyn’s vision of what he can achieve from Brexit is as hopelessly and unrealistically wedded to the past as the Brexiters empire-centric ambitions.

 

We don’t want to go back to wholesale nationalisation any more than we want to wind back over half a century of commonwealth history.

 

Very true. We have the worst government since the Great Reform Act and to compound matters the main opposition party is failing to do it's job and hold them to account on the biggest issue facing this country.

 

---------- Post added 31-03-2018 at 13:18 ----------

 

I agree with this but that doesn't actually address the point of Corbynites (as opposed to your average 'Labour supporter') either burying their head in the sand or out right denying the fact that Corbyn himself is a Brexiteer (whether hard or soft is somewhat irrelevant).

 

It just seems to me that the 'cult of Corbyn' refuses to acknowledge his stance on the subject even it's in direct contrast to their own hard held views. Do you not think that this blind devotion is somewhat worrying?

 

I find the domination of Labour by creepy cultists personally loyal to Corbyn over anything else no matter what the evidence to the contrary to be very worrying.

[I1L2T3 10]

I agree with this but that doesn't actually address the point of Corbynites (as opposed to your average 'Labour supporter') either burying their head in the sand or out right denying the fact that Corbyn himself is a Brexiteer (whether hard or soft is somewhat irrelevant).

 

It just seems to me that the 'cult of Corbyn' refuses to acknowledge his stance on the subject even it's in direct contrast to their own hard held views. Do you not think that this blind devotion is somewhat worrying?

 

I’m not sure the realities of Brexit are actually that important to them. The same could be said of many leave voters.

 

For both groups Brexit is just something they need to happen to get to where they want their ideology to take them.

 

And for both groups the practical realities don’t matter. Ideology matters.

 

Very strange times we live in.

[banjodeano 31]

well well well....

YouGov polls show anti-Semitism in Labour has actually REDUCED DRAMATICALLY since Jeremy Corbyn became leader

 

Contrary to the narrative portrayed by the media furore surrounding Labour’s reported ‘problem’ with anti-Semitism, data curated by YouGov actually shows that since Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party in 2015, anti-Semitic views amongst Labour party voters have actually reduced substantially.

 

Not only does the data show a marked decrease in the number of Labour voters in 2017 agreeing with anti-Semitic statements compared to those in 2015, the statistics show that all other political parties (apart from the Lib Dems whose results are comparable to Labour’s) have a far bigger problem with their voters agreeing with anti-Semitic statements.

https://evolvepolitics.com/yougov-polls-show-anti-semitism-in-labour-has-actually-reduced-dramatically-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader/

[Anna B 1,417]

I agree with this but that doesn't actually address the point of Corbynites (as opposed to your average 'Labour supporter') either burying their head in the sand or out right denying the fact that Corbyn himself is a Brexiteer (whether hard or soft is somewhat irrelevant).

 

It just seems to me that the 'cult of Corbyn' refuses to acknowledge his stance on the subject even it's in direct contrast to their own hard held views. Do you not think that this blind devotion is somewhat worrying?

 

Corbyn is not as far left as people think he is and is big on compromise and consensus thinking. He'd rather seek the views of others and negotiate before commiting himself/the party to a plan of action. I would have thought this was a strength not a weakness.

 

Unfortunately we seem to be living through a time of knee-jerk reactions, instant black or white opinions, and trial by media. That's the part I find worrying.

 

There is no 'cult of Corbyn. But whilever the media are going to print crude untruths about him, expect those that have taken the trouble to find out the real facts to defend him.

[I1L2T3 10]

well well well....

YouGov polls show anti-Semitism in Labour has actually REDUCED DRAMATICALLY since Jeremy Corbyn became leader

 

Contrary to the narrative portrayed by the media furore surrounding Labour’s reported ‘problem’ with anti-Semitism, data curated by YouGov actually shows that since Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party in 2015, anti-Semitic views amongst Labour party voters have actually reduced substantially.

 

Not only does the data show a marked decrease in the number of Labour voters in 2017 agreeing with anti-Semitic statements compared to those in 2015, the statistics show that all other political parties (apart from the Lib Dems whose results are comparable to Labour’s) have a far bigger problem with their voters agreeing with anti-Semitic statements.

https://evolvepolitics.com/yougov-polls-show-anti-semitism-in-labour-has-actually-reduced-dramatically-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader/

 

I’m not surprised.

 

Like I said earlier the real reason for attacking Corbyn is because he is less than fully pro-Israel. Cripes, even a lot of Jewish Israeli citizens are very anti many of the actions of their own state.

 

It’s got little to do with anti-semitism. Attacks on the Israeli state are not automatically anti-Semitic.

 

Yesterday’s events bring this into sharp focus. Live fire on thousands of civilians is not the action of a responsible state.

[blake 10]

you're probably an antisemite if you spell antisemite as anti-semite. It's the only word in the English language that is ever spelt with a hyphen. Also no other languages ever spell it that way, with a hyphen. Only in English is the originally German word antisemitisch ever spelt with a hyphen.

[El Cid 221]

It’s got little to do with anti-semitism. Attacks on the Israeli state are not automatically anti-Semitic.

 

 

We do we use the phrase 'anti-semitism'?

 

What would be the word for anti-muslim, why dont we just say 'anti-jew'?

[I1L2T3 10]

you're probably an antisemite if you spell antisemite as anti-semite. It's the only word in the English language that is ever spelt with a hyphen. Also no other languages ever spell it that way, with a hyphen. Only in English is the originally German word antisemitisch ever spelt with a hyphen.

 

Good lord. That’s a few minutes of your life wasted that you won’t get back.

[blake 10]

I’m not surprised.

 

 

 

It’s got little to do with anti-semitism. Attacks on the Israeli state are not automatically anti-Semitic.

 

 

yes, they are. Attacks on the 'Israeli state', for being - well, the 'Israeli state', or the state of Israel, and a state for Jews as a national home, in the sense that such a thing should not exist and should be done away with, IS antisemite.

[melthebell 864]

We do we use the phrase 'anti-semitism'?

 

What would be the word for anti-muslim, why dont we just say 'anti-jew'?

semites is the bible word for the jews i believe? something like that?

[I1L2T3 10]

yes, they are. Attacks on the 'Israeli state', for being - well, the 'Israeli state', or the state of Israel, and a state for Jews as a national home, in the sense that such a thing should not exist and should be done away with, IS antisemite.

 

Nope, attacks on the state are not automatically anti-Semitic.

 

I don’t mean physical attacks, but verbal attacks that challenge and/or condemn the actions of the state.

 

Because the state was created as a state for Jews does not give it a free pass to do whatever it likes. Just like us having an established state church does not give us free licence to do whatever we like in the name of Christianity. There are numerous examples of actions the Israeli state should be challenged on. Doing so is not anti-Semitic. Far from it.