Buying alcohol with a teenager in tow.

[chipspice]

well luckily it's not up to you

[Happ Hazzard]

Alcohol should not be abused!

[Olive]

If it was up to me supermarkets wouldn't be allowed to sell alcohol, only dedicated off-licenses. And you would have to be 18 to even enter an off-licence.

 

I don't think that's a bad idea actually, they do it in Sweden and Australia. But while supermarkets do sell alcohol, they seem to be interpreting the laws inconsistently and badly, leaving people like the OP in a daft situation, and casting aspertions on people's intentions.

[kidley]

I guess the shop could refuse to sell anything to anyone (as long as they aren't contravening antidiscrimination acts), but it would be daft policy in terms of repeat business. Also, this just a suggestion, a guideline, not a piece of legislation, which is why I didn't pull it out in my post.

 

If i may say Olive i think you have got this a little mixed up, like you say a shop can refuse to serve anybody anything, also like you say it is not against the law to do so. But what is against the law is, if anybody serving alcohol to an adult if it looks like the adult is buying it for a minor, that is against the law and like said above not only the licensee but the shop assistant who served the alcohol can get find up to £10,000,00. that is why these checkout people are a little bit OTT at times, especially when they know that police are sending people in to test you.

[angos]

Been out shopping today with my 17 year old daughter,the last shop we went in was to buy a couple of bottles of alcohol for tonight.When we got to the checkout the assistant asked if my daughter could prove she was 18,i said no because she is 17 but what has her age got to do with anything,she then said "I suspect you are buying the alcohol for her " i said well you are wrong,but she refused to serve me.I asked to speak to the manager who backed up the assistant.Does anyone think she was at all in the right,or do you think it was bloody stupid like i do.

 

Sounds a very stupid rule to me.

 

It is against the law:

 

To sell alcohol to someone under 18 anywhere.

 

For an adult to buy or attempt to buy alcohol on behalf of someone under 18. (retailers can reserve the right to refuse the sale of alcohol to an adult if they’re accompanied by a child and think the alcohol is being bought for the child.)

 

For someone under 18 to buy alcohol, attempt to buy alcohol or to be sold alcohol.

 

For someone under 18 to drink alcohol in licensed premises, except where the child is 16 or 17 years old and accompanied by an adult. In this case it is legal for them to drink, but not buy, beer, wine and cider with a table meal.

 

For an adult to buy alcohol for someone under 18 for consumption on licensed premises, except as above.

 

It is not illegal:

 

For someone over 18 to buy a child over 16 beer, wine or cider if they are eating a table meal together in licensed premises.

For a child aged 5 to 16 to drink alcohol at home or on other private premises.

 

Which would mean an adult would have to buy the alcohol.

[999tigger]

Why would they lose their licence? They wouldn't have done anything wrong!

 

Because the police can make an objection to letting them have a renewal of the licence based on how they carried out their obligations.

 

Two of the ground they can object on are:

 

prevention of crime and disorder- This wouldnt have to be the crime of the supermarket.

protection of children from harm

 

These would both be relevant if it was found out that parents could easily buy alcohol for their kids without checks, hence the sledgehammer approach.

 

It seems Tesco, Waitrose, Morrisons and Asda all have this policy. Theyd rather lose some sales rather than the licence.

 

As for liability, then some of the supermarkets seem to think they can be held liable, but I see your point about selling it to an adult.

[butterball]

I work in a supermarket and yes I agree it's very stupid and makes us look pedantic and ridiculous sometimes. I've had to refuse people before and I've been threatened and abused over it which was pretty scary. However, we are CONSTANTLY having training on Think 25 and what the repercussions are of us selling alcohol that end up in the hands of a minor. I would lose my job, get a massive fine that I couldn't pay and I could even face prosecution. For me, it's really not worth the risk unfortunately so I'm super cautious. I agree though it's senseless.

[Olive]

Because the police can make an objection to letting them have a renewal of the licence based on how they carried out their obligations.

 

Two of the ground they can object on are:

 

prevention of crime and disorder- This wouldnt have to be the crime of the supermarket.

protection of children from harm

 

These would both be relevant if it was found out that parents could easily buy alcohol for their kids without checks, hence the sledgehammer approach.

 

It seems Tesco, Waitrose, Morrisons and Asda all have this policy. Theyd rather lose some sales rather than the licence.

 

As for liability, then some of the supermarkets seem to think they can be held liable, but I see your point about selling it to an adult.

 

Your post makes a great deal of sense. If there's been a problem in an area with youngsters drinking in the park say, and their source has been traced to a local supermarket, then yes, the shop needs to be careful. Are the grounds that you quote related to the sale of alcohol laws, or other laws? It's the sledgehammer approach being applied for no good reason which makes a mockery of it all.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2013 at 23:16 ----------

 

If i may say Olive i think you have got this a little mixed up, like you say a shop can refuse to serve anybody anything, also like you say it is not against the law to do so.

 

Yes, but it's probably not good for business if shops apply rules like they did to Gazza, and it's treating customers unfairly for no good reason, so it makes no sense.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2013 at 23:19 ----------

 

But what is against the law is, if anybody serving alcohol to an adult if it looks like the adult is buying it for a minor, that is against the law and like said above not only the licensee but the shop assistant who served the alcohol can get find up to £10,000,00. that is why these checkout people are a little bit OTT at times, especially when they know that police are sending people in to test you.

 

Not according to the link you posted. The only person culpable by law is the person buying the alcohol, not the shop. And only then if they are buying it "on behalf of" the minor, it's perfectly legal to take it home and give it to them (as long as they aren't under five years old).

Edited December 31, 2013 by Olive

[onewheeldave]

I work in a supermarket and yes I agree it's very stupid and makes us look pedantic and ridiculous sometimes. I've had to refuse people before and I've been threatened and abused over it which was pretty scary. However, we are CONSTANTLY having training on Think 25 and what the repercussions are of us selling alcohol that end up in the hands of a minor. I would lose my job, get a massive fine that I couldn't pay and I could even face prosecution. For me, it's really not worth the risk unfortunately so I'm super cautious. I agree though it's senseless.

 

This is not true. You could sell alcohol to a 70 year old with no child in sight, and they could go home and pass it on to a child- the seller could in no way be held responsible for that.

 

Supermarkets can't expect decent parents who simply wish to exercise their legal right to purchase alcohol, yet who happen to have their child with them during their shopping, to leave their child outside- which is exactly what this policy could lead to.

Edited January 1, 2014 by onewheeldave

[butterball]

This is not true. You could sell alcohol to a 70 year old with no child in sight, and they could go home and pass it on to a child- the seller could in no way be held responsible for that.

 

Supermarkets can't expect decent parents who simply wish to exercise their legal right to purchase alcohol, yet who happen to have their child with them during their shopping, to leave their child outside- which is exactly what this policy could lead to.

 

that may be true but if we suspect an adult is buying alcohol for a minor that is accompanying them then we reserve the right to refuse the sale. It's simply a case of using your common sense and if I see a parent buying a bottle of wine and a spirit for example and they had a minor with them I would be less suspicious, especially if it was with other shopping. If I had a customer accompanied by a minor and they were solely buying bottles of Smirnoff ice or WKD or something that would probably raise my suspicions and I would question it. If they simply said no it wasn't for the minor I would have to refuse the sale and my manager would back me up. Sorry, I know it's a pain for people but like I said before for me its simply not worth the risk. I need my job, I don't have ten grand plus to pay the fine and I don't want a criminal record.