14yr old girl reported as injured by the Taliban.

[Drone]

Ok sorry Mort

[maxmaximus]

Got to hand it to you max, the way you underhandedly try to misrepresent your opponent while simultaneously avoiding putting any substance behind your own claims is nothing short of an artform. I have to take my hat of to you for that

 

I haven’t made any claims; I’ve just questioned your assertion that millions of Muslims aren’t realy Muslims because they don’t abide by the rules of Islam as set out in the Quran. I understand that you absolutely believe what you say, but in my opinion you have failed to demonstrate why some Muslims aren’t realy Muslims.

[charlie9865]

I think despite difference of opinions on here, we all know that no child. No matter their race, religion and gender Deserves to be shot.

 

This girl is an amazingly strong person, who stood up for what they believed in. Despite the consequences, I wish her a speedy recovery.

 

Its a sad world we are bringing kids on to now a days.

(Sound old) I mean every word

[PaliRichard]

I haven’t made any claims[/Quote]

 

Yes you have, you have claimed that I have said millions of Muslims aren't really Muslims. I haven't made that claim at all, I have said that using the correct definition of the word 'Muslim', which is universally accepted, some people who claim to be Muslims don't live in accordance with the correct meaning of that word.

 

You have also made the claim, by way of disagreeing with the definition of the word 'Muslim' I give, that people who commit acts of terrorism are doing so in accordance with the Quran.

 

Despite making this claim in several posts and my asking you to quantify it by taking the post I made with the Quran quotes on and using the post in its entirety, rather than just the bits that apply to your opinion which is what you have been doing, and substantiating that claim point by point with the quotes I have made you have not only failed to do so but seemingly tried to shift the attention away from you doing so by trying to return to this claim that I have said 'millions' of Muslims aren't Muslim again and again, despite my having explained to you repeatedly I have been using the correct definition of the word, and not merely using it in a broad sense to ascribe to anyone who claims to be Muslim.

 

The word is active, it requires certain actions to be undertaken for it to apply (living in accordance with the will of Allah - the Quran), so merely claiming to be Muslim does not make you Muslim when using this definition - this point is one you seem totally and utterly unable to grasp.

 

In short there are two ways of using the word Muslim.

 

1. Using it in accordance with it's correct, and universally accepted meaning (which I have been doing).

 

2. Applying it as a general 'umberella' term for all those who claim to be Muslim and who have been brought up in Islamic societies - the way you claim I have been using it, but I haven't - despite your insistance to the contrary.

 

I’ve just questioned your assertion that millions of Muslims aren’t realy Muslims because they don’t abide by the rules of Islam as set out in the Quran[/Quote]

 

I haven't once made that assertion, because I have been using the first definition of Muslim I give above exclusively.

 

I understand that you absolutely believe what you say[/Quote]

 

It's irrelevant what I 'believe', I have been using the word 'Muslim' in its correct context, my belief has nothing to do with it.

 

but in my opinion you have failed to demonstrate why some Muslims aren’t realy Muslims.

 

I haven't tried to demonstrate why Muslims aren't really Muslims, I have merely stated that Muslims live in accordance with the Quran - which is the correct definition of the word.

 

So you have made claims, by association with disagreeing with me, they are to summarise;

 

1. You have claimed that terrorists are living in accordance with the Quran (thus making them Muslims) but have failed, actually no, avoided my request to use the quotes I made from the Quran to back up this claim point by point, relying instead on taking selective quotes that back up your own opinion and leaving those that clearly show your opinion to be wrong.

 

2. You have claimed I have said millions of Muslims aren't really Muslims - I haven't, because I have been clear with the definition of the word Muslim I been using from the start - you just refuse to accept this definition.

 

3. I have asked you to clarify why you used the term 'millions' in relation to the above claim - you have failed to do so.

 

4. Instead of attempting any of the above you have instead employed misdirection and character slur to try to shift the attention from the above points - it is interesting that you haven't even denied my last posts assertion that you tried to misrepresent me.

 

5. You have claimed that I have avoided answering questions you have put to me regarding the behaviour of Muslims in war, I haven't avoided answering this, as I have put to you on more than one occasion I have already addressed it in the post I made with the quotes from the Quran - the very same quotes you are loath to address because they would make your entire argument collapse.

 

Now if you're going to insist I am using the second definition I gave of the word Muslim I have nothing more to say to you - this was a last ditch attempt to try to get it through to you that you have been trying to 'put words into my mouth' when I have tried to be quite clear from the start.

 

If you accept I am using the first definition of the word then I will ask one last time for you to use the quotes I gave in their entirety to justify your opinion that some people are acting in line with the Quran by commiting acts of terrorism.

[maxmaximus]

If you accept I am using the first definition of the word then I will ask one last time for you to use the quotes I gave in their entirety to justify your opinion that some people are acting in line with the Quran by commiting acts of terrorism.

 

Fighting should be undertaken when the innocent are in harms way, and not to do so is frowned upon by allah.

 

This seems to be your problem, you see Muslims as terrorists just because they have taken up arms in the defence of their homelands and people.

 

 

Many Muslims perceive Israel as an occupation of their homeland and believe their brother Muslims are being persecuted, they believe the West supports this occupation and persecution of the Palestinians, and this gives them justification for all the actions that the Quran allows. In fact, in your words, inaction would be frowned upon by Allah.

 

http://quran.com/9/5

http://quran.com/9/29

http://quran.com/8/39

http://quran.com/9/14

http://quran.com/9/123

Edited October 14, 2012 by maxmaximus

[Plain Talker]

This seems to be your problem, you see Muslims as terrorists just because they have taken up arms in the defence of their homelands and people.

 

 

Many Muslims perceive Israel as an occupation of their homeland and believe their brother Muslims are being persecuted, they believe the West supports this occupation and persecution of the Palestinians, and this gives them justification for all the actions that the Quran allows. In fact, in your words, inaction would be frowned upon by Allah.

 

http://quran.com/9/5

http://quran.com/9/29

http://quran.com/8/39

http://quran.com/9/14

http://quran.com/9/123

 

And the context of those verses you quote, taken as they are, in isolation would be...? Utterly meaningless?

[andygardener]

And the context of those verses you quote, taken as they are, in isolation would be...? Utterly meaningless?

 

It would be utterly meaningless if people were not blowing themselves and others up as a result of them.

 

However they are, so it's quite important.

 

As non-muslims clearly we regard the whole quran as mohameds self-serving made up nonsense. As a muslim you regard it as true. What you take from it clearly is good. What our enemies take from it is clearly less good.

 

But is what our enemies take from it wrong is the question? Are we fighting against the islamists? Yes. So should an islamist want to fight us? That seems likely yes if they believe a sky pixie commands them to fight us. So are they the "true muslims"? Or are the muslims that stand with us non-muslims the real muslims?

 

I'm not betting a lifetime in allahs hell if i'm wrong because islam is all as convincing as a fat lorry driver dressed up as mandy at weekends, the muslims who take one side or other are (including you) and all maximus is doing is respecting that big bet they are making on one side or other and objecting to any non-muslim telling muslims what the "real" islam is.

[maxmaximus]

And the context of those verses you quote, taken as they are, in isolation would be...? Utterly meaningless?

 

Quite possibly, but as all Muslims are maybe not as intelligent as you, or see themselves as a persecuted people because they live in a country they perceive to be occupied by a foreign force. They probably look at it differently to you and take the action they think Allah wants them to take.

 

As I’ve said before, it’s a book written 1400 years ago so is open to different interpretations, and can pretty much mean what you want it to mean.

Some Muslims have a reason to fight and the book gives them the right to fight, one doesn’t blow one’s self up unless one as absolute faith that it is what Allah wants and will gain them access to a better life by his side.

 

I couldn’t hope to reason with such a person because I don’t believe in God, the only people that stand a chance of reasoning with these people are their fellow Muslims that do have something in common, their belief in Allah.

Edited October 15, 2012 by maxmaximus

[matsalleh]

Back on topic,it appears she is coming to the UK for treatment she needs.Let's hope it is a success.

[Plain Talker]

Back on topic,it appears she is coming to the UK for treatment she needs.Let's hope it is a success.

 

Insha'Allah, I hope her treatment goes well.