Sheffield Council to decide the fate of your ANPR data

[esme]

Planner1 can you answer the following questions for me please

 

1. how long is the number plate information retained for after a full journey observation from A to B has been made
   
2. what happens to this data once a journey has been calculated
   
3. who has access to the number plate and related journey information
   

[Planner1]

How's that. When you yourself have stated that the are "legally in a grey area not covered by currrent legislation":confused:.

 

BTW. Not being linked to the DVLA computer doesn't mean that someone can access the data and the make the connections. This is made easier by the fact that the data will not be encrypted.

 

That was my interpretation of what the Survailence Commissioner was saying in the paragraph quoted.

 

Their comments relate to survailence systems, as used by the Police. This doesn't appear particularly relevant to the SYITS system as it isn't a survailence system which records "personal" details such as an image of the vehicle or driver.

 

As I've said, the people running SYITS are satisfied that the number plate data does not constitute personal data. They have protocols in place which say that they will not link the information they hold to to the DVLA database and the ANPR data will be kept secure by following the data protection protocols they have in place.

[Cyclone]

You don't consider a complete record of someones movements to be 'personal'.

 

Of course the people sponsoring the scheme are satisfied, it's their scheme and they have a vested interest in deciding that it's all hunky dory.

And the people supplying the system won't care at all, so long as the bill is paid on time they have no worries beyond that point.

[hsb98c]

I think there is a little dramatisation going here. They are not tracking all your movements and are only doing major roads, and not all of them. They can't tell where you came from, where you went between cameras and where you ended up. Just happened to pass point A and point B.

 

There is cause for concern about who has access, how much they want to track their Ex and what they can do if they know the reg of their car. Encryption would (as has been pointed out) solve a lot of this. It would stop people working on the system from tracking people they know (look at what some people in Obamas phone company did) which is my biggest concern.

 

But as to tracking my every movement... lets keep to the facts else it makes the argument void as you talk yourself out of the discussion. I've done i many times (as I work in IT myself and have plenty of arguments about Id cards etc).

[Cyclone]

Read the earlier replies, planner1 makes a point of telling us that all our journeys are already tracked so why worry about it.

If the data is to be off any use to traffic planners it has to be quite comprehensive, so presumably it will cover all the major roads, which doesn't leave much of your journey out.

[Planner1]

You don't consider a complete record of someones movements to be 'personal'.

 

Of course the people sponsoring the scheme are satisfied, it's their scheme and they have a vested interest in deciding that it's all hunky dory.

And the people supplying the system won't care at all, so long as the bill is paid on time they have no worries beyond that point.

 

It's not personal because the user does not link it to an individual's personal information. A vehicle registration number is not consideed personal information when no attempt is made to establish who it belongs to or who is diving it.

 

The people running the scheme have to think the issue through carefully because they will have to justify their stance if there is any challenge.

[Cyclone]

So we're back to where we started. You and the scheme do not believe there is any privacy issue, despite the fact that abuse would be possible very easily and a future linking up of the data with the dvla would be trivially easy to implement.

[Planner1]

Planner1 can you answer the following questions for me please

 

1. how long is the number plate information retained for after a full journey observation from A to B has been made
   
2. what happens to this data once a journey has been calculated
   
3. who has access to the number plate and related journey information
   

 

No decision has yet been made on how long data will be retained. Normal traffic data, such as counts and roadside interview surveys, would be considered valid for a period of five years.

 

The data is held on a secure server, which is not part of the Council's normal ICT network

 

Only the SYITS partners staff responsible fo rcollecting and analysing the data will have access. (The SYITS partners are Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Sheffield Councils, plus SYPTE)

[Captain_Scarlet]

The scheme promoters and the system suppliers clearly don't believe that this is the case.

Off course they don't. I don't believe that burning every Tesco Express is illegal, doesn't mean it isn't!

As I've said, the people running SYITS are satisfied that the number plate data does not constitute personal data. They have protocols in place which say that they will not link the information they hold to to the DVLA database and the ANPR data will be kept secure by following the data protection protocols they have in place.

My car's plates are my property and belongs to me, even if the DVLA dished the number out. The bit of plastic it is printed on and the number itself are mine. the number plate and the number are personal data, owned by me at a considerable cost, it is not up to some random organisation to record where this number goes, has come from or stays at night, it's up to me.

No decision has yet been made on how long data will be retained. Normal traffic data, such as counts and roadside interview surveys, would be considered valid for a period of five years.

 

The data is held on a secure server, which is not part of the Council's normal ICT network

 

Only the SYITS partners staff responsible for collecting and analysing the data will have access. (The SYITS partners are Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Sheffield Councils, plus SYPTE)

The decision should have been made before putting the scheme into place and the public should probably be consulted about use of personal data. The idea of a secure server is in the eyes of the beholder and considering public authorities IT skills and departments, I wouldn't call them secure. That's not hear say, NDAs prevent me from saying more about the details of flaws and holes but they are blatant and worrying.

Even if this SYITS and its employees are the only persons looking at the data, what right do they have to use our money, give themselves a job, spy on our movements, use data at our expense to make route journeys worst because their processes are flawed?

 

Pencil pushers ruling the world!

[esme]

No decision has yet been made on how long data will be retained. Normal traffic data, such as counts and roadside interview surveys, would be considered valid for a period of five years.

Will this include vehicle registration information or will it be just the journey information ?

The data is held on a secure server, which is not part of the Council's normal ICT network

 

Only the SYITS partners staff responsible fo rcollecting and analysing the data will have access. (The SYITS partners are Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Sheffield Councils, plus SYPTE)

so no one outside the department will have access to the server or it's data, apart from the route statistics generated by the department ? and further these statistics will not contain vehicle registration information ?

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask here is this, will there be any way for anyone with a registration number to find out what journeys, if any, that vehicle made on such and such, a date using the data that will be retained

 

because the only way I can think of preventing that is to discard the registration information automatically once the route has been determined

 

can you tell me if this is done please and if you don't know if it is done can you tell me who to ask

Edited April 29, 2009 by esme
badly worded