Barriers at Sheffield Station - Application Rejected (Nov 2009)

[Dan_Ashcroft 10]

A great victory for the people of Sheffield over the forces of darkness.

 

 

Now efforts redoubled to stop the ridiculous Hillsborough parking tax and then I can retire from local pressure group work!

[C3PO 10]

A great victory for the people of Sheffield over the forces of darkness.

 

errrm a bit over the top mate

[Dan_Ashcroft 10]

errrm a bit over the top mate

 

Murky EMT shareholders who wanted to inconvenience a whole city, close a public-funded facility and lay off a lot of their on-board staff, to the detrimrent of public safety and comfort, all in the name of dividends?

Edited November 23, 2009 by Dan_Ashcroft

[Foggy Eyes 10]

I don't know all the details but if a proper link had been established across the station site when undergoing its refurbishment we wouldn't be in this mess. This issue isn't going to go away as long as the barriers are wanted by EMT and the people want the link across.

[swordfish1 10]

Now you're scaring me:o

 

 

 

I wouldn't be scared, she did put smileys on the post. But the post was completely incorrect anyway.

[pushtotalk 10]

Do you realise that you DON'T actually need a ticket to traverse a bridge? The bridge is not a mandatory ticketing area, and as such you cannot impede access across it.

 

It's a PUBLIC area. The public need free access on the bridge, to get to the ticket office, etc,

 

Look logically at the scenario, FGS:-

 

You need a ticket to cross the bridge..

 

erm,

 

but...

 

You can't get across the bridge to buy a ticket,

 

Because you need a flamin' ticket to get across the bridge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

*slaps head at the absurdity*

 

How do you determine whether somewhere is a mandatory ticket area?! Is that even a real term, what even is a mandatory ticket area?! With or without barriers, the bridge is not an outright full right of way but a PERMISSIVE right of way - ie you are allowed to pass through it, it isn't a God given right. Just because something is in a public area doesn't automatically mean you have the right to access it come what may.

 

And as someone already pointed out, you claim that in EMT's utopia that you would need a ticket to pass through the bridge but you can't buy a ticket until you have crossed that very same bridge. Well try getting your facts right (either that or stop being modest with the truth) because whether or not you like it the ticket machine at the Supertram end of the bridge it IS there all the same and allows you to buy a ticket if the barriers ever become a reality. And you know it's there.

 

On another note, there really should be a better 24 hour crossing than the current main alternative to the station - one that is bright, clean and accessible for everyone but that's not rocket science and has been covered in depth on the other thread.

Edited November 23, 2009 by pushtotalk

[pushtotalk 10]

I would imagine tomorrow EMT will be having some detailed discussions with the DfT. If the DfT come up with the decision to now drop the requirement for barriers, expect a press release stating that "due to the overwhelimg feedback, and the difficulties in adapting the gates for the specific environment in Sheffield station they are not going to press forward with the plans. EMT stands fully behind the principle of ticket barriers and will work with the local authorities and DfT in order to safegaurd their ticket revenues using alternative methods more suited to Sheffield".

 

Knowing Stagecoach I'm not convinced they will simply walk away - I could of course be wrong but as I say, I'm not convinced. At the very least I would expect an increase in random checks especially as Sheffield becomes a penalty fare station on 7th December (along with others including Dronfield) although penalty fares will only apply to EM services, from what I can tell.

 

Of course the other option for EMT to pursue if there are no barriers is to claim the lost revenue from the DfT, or rather the taxpayer!

Edited November 23, 2009 by pushtotalk

[Foggy Eyes 10]

On another note, there really should be a better 24 hour crossing than the current main alternative to the station - one that is bright, clean and accessible for everyone but that's not rocket science and has been covered in depth on the other thread.

 

My point in a nutshell.

[dosxuk 10]

Murky EMT shareholders who wanted to inconvenience a whole city, close a public-funded facility and lay off a lot of their on-board staff, to the detrimrent of public safety and comfort, all in the name of dividends?

 

The requirement for barriers is part of the franchise, put in by the Government, not the "murky EMT shareholders". When the franchises changed, whichever company got the job would have been putting in the application for the barriers. Same as complaints about the size of trains used - it's not upto the actual operators what they do, the decisions are made by the government, but they have to put up with the bad publicity when things go bad (likewise, the government claim the credit for any additional trains or services rather than the operator).

 

Knowing Stagecoach I'm not convinced they will simply walk away - I could of course be wrong but as I say, I'm not convinced.

 

It's really not in the best interests of Stagecoach or their shareholders to continue to press for the barriers, but it all depends on whether the DfT will let them off on the commitment without penalty by saying they've done enough. Public opinion has changed since the franchises where issued, and even the government run East Coast franchise is giving up on installing barriers in York after a similar campaign.

 

Of course the other option for EMT to pursue if there are no barriers is to claim the lost revenue from the DfT, or rather the taxpayer!

 

Unlikely. The main reason for the barriers is to enable the Government to reduce the amount of subsidy they pay the operators (remember EMT don't pay the government for to run the service, the government pay EMT to run it). I would imagine the DfT would tell EMT they've been operating fine with the current levels of subsidy and aren't getting any additional funding to cover EMT's inability to meet their contractual obligations.

[Vague_Boy 10]

This could result in them being fined, options on the franchise refused, or even having the franchise removed.

 

Given the ridiculous amounts they charge for trains to London, is it too much to hope that this might come to pass?

[Cyclone 10]

but the bridge is not a public right of way and there would have been a ticket machine of which you could buy and collect tickets from including the one already there and a member of staff to assist and if the pass scheme is unworkable how come it works at derby station ok

 

Derby station has no through route to anywhere.

[Cyclone 10]

Excellent news.

 

Just been to London for the weekend. Got off the train at St Pancras and had to wait 10-15 minutes to pass through the ticket barriers at the end of the EMT platform.

 

Why? Because, out of eight barriers, five barriers were for people entering the platform and three were for people leaving. Of those three, one was completely out of order and the other two seemed to be rejecting every 3rd ticket.

 

There was only one member of staff to help and they they were mostly helping people coming the other way with large luggage - opening and closing the wider manually operated gate barrier.

 

When the guard did sporadically help out the people trying to leave the platform he manually checked the tickets that had been refused by the barriers and I didn't see him reject a single ticket.

 

These barriers seem different to the Thameslink (or whatever that franchise is called now) barriers on the downstairs platforms. The Thameslink ones will let someone else use them immediately after an invalid ticket has been tried, where as the EMT barriers seemed to require either a long wait or some manual intervention. They were showing a red cross after rejecting a ticket. I couldn't work out if it was reset to a green tick by the action of the guard, or if there was a timed delay.

 

Complete chaos.

 

For comparison, last time I came through St P about a year ago they didn't have the barriers at the end of the EMT platforms, but had 2 people manually checking tickets - and there was no noticeable queue.

 

They work fine most of the time, I've been through S Pancs once or twice a week since they were installed and there is rarely a queue.

I guess you caught it on a bad day.