RegularJohn Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 To be fair if you read one of the earlier posts the OP says that 'alternative' is the label society has given the sub-culture and not itself. Exactly, i dont think most 'alternatives' or 'chavs' see themselves any different to you or i. The tags are what society has created for them, iv asked a few 'chavs' and they dislike the name alot and would rather just be called people and im sure its the same for 'alternatives'. People need to stop seeing tags and start seeing people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19SazzaLou91 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 YAY!!! fabulous news!!! See you there - make sure you say Hi when you see me! xx how do i know which one you are, though? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19SazzaLou91 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 You say that i's everyone else's problem yet you yourselves describe yourselves as 'alternative'. It's not being particularly individual to dress like a goth, there's as much emphasis on fashion as any other style, maybe if you (and everyone else, mind) accepted that and didn't think of yourselves as alternative and different it might help. you're not special 'cause you wear black. the point is we're standing up for what we believe in. and we dont think we are special, or "alternative" not once in this entire thread has anyone said "We're special people, listen to us." and we class ourselves as alternatives seeing as every other bugger who doesn't dress like us calls us "alternative" or (in my case): "You dirty Goth b****, you deserve to die slowly and painfully." Then I got spat on. Anyway, my point being, if you didn't really agree to this thread to begin with, why waste your time (and ours) by reading it all and then deciding to add your point to it when we've already heard it all before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 the point is we're standing up for what we believe in. and we dont think we are special, or "alternative" not once in this entire thread has anyone said "We're special people, listen to us." and we class ourselves as alternatives seeing as every other bugger who doesn't dress like us calls us "alternative" or (in my case): "You dirty Goth b****, you deserve to die slowly and painfully." Then I got spat on. Anyway, my point being, if you didn't really agree to this thread to begin with, why waste your time (and ours) by reading it all and then deciding to add your point to it when we've already heard it all before. Firstly, many people on this thread have reffered to themselves as alternative, you seem to like the idea that you're different from all the 'squares', it seems to me that many people get a kick out of being different (no i'm not saying you're different i just mean the silly clothes you wear). I'm not for a second saying that you deserve any abuse for it or even that you're asking for it, attitudes certainly need to change if that really is as common as you say it is. I have many friends who wear eyeliner and listen to bands with people that scream a lot and none who've ever been hassled by plebs any more than the rest of us. The kind of person who would say something like "You dirty Goth b****, you deserve to die slowly and painfully." is probably the same kind of person that might have a go at me if i gave them a reason, say, looking twice for example, some people are just idiots. Secondly, of course i didn't read the whole thread, you're right, that would've been a frivolous waste of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmutt Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 (no i'm not saying you're different i just mean the silly clothes you wear) New rocks £200 a pair (biker boots) designer corsets £150 victorian mourning hats £100 or above walking canes with silver heads £80 and above Victorian bustle dresses £150 and over tailed jackets £100 and above dont forget the tutu for a mini goth £25 just a few items to mention I dont call that silly, to me its a sign of style and class compaired to a £5 pair of jeans from primark I sit and wonder why does no one tell a biker he is silly for the boots he wears, lets face it he would have the same boots as a goth. I know why, because he will not take the abuse thrown at him like the placid goth does. Has no one ever got dressed up at halloween or to a fancy dress party? I know i have on many occasions and had a real good time, Even now i get kids on my doorstep with the trick or treat and they love it. I have even dressed as a chicken in the middle of summer in the local park just for the sheer fun of it. If people want to dress up then let them be it as a chicken, a rocker or a goth, it is their choice and what may seem silly to one person is not that way to another. Everyone has the right to an opinion but for the sake of peace there are times when opinions should be kept to yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 New rocks £200 a pair (biker boots) designer corsets £150 victorian mourning hats £100 or above walking canes with silver heads £80 and above Victorian bustle dresses £150 and over tailed jackets £100 and above dont forget the tutu for a mini goth £25 just a few items to mention I dont call that silly, to me its a sign of style and class compaired to a £5 pair of jeans from primark I sit and wonder why does no one tell a biker he is silly for the boots he wears, lets face it he would have the same boots as a goth. I know why, because he will not take the abuse thrown at him like the placid goth does. Has no one ever got dressed up at halloween or to a fancy dress party? I know i have on many occasions and had a real good time, Even now i get kids on my doorstep with the trick or treat and they love it. I have even dressed as a chicken in the middle of summer in the local park just for the sheer fun of it. If people want to dress up then let them be it as a chicken, a rocker or a goth, it is their choice and what may seem silly to one person is not that way to another. Everyone has the right to an opinion but for the sake of peace there are times when opinions should be kept to yourself Firstly, the fact that something is expensive does not by any means mean that it's not silly and that it's got 'class'. All it means is you have to pay more for it than cheap stuff. I accept however, that it is just my opinion that they're silly, but don't tell me i can't have it! And this is not one of the times when my opinion should be kept to myself, this is a public forum, it's like pretty much the opposite! I enjoy dressing up too, 'tis fun. But you're doing it again, if you're clothes wern't silly then it wouldn't be 'dressing up' it would just be 'getting changed'. You continue to make a distinction between people that 'dress up' and people who dress 'normally' as well as the people that tease you about it. And thirdly, if i saw a goth or a biker wearing silly boots, i wouldn't call either of them silly, 'cause that would be rude, however if the biker asked me 'd'you like my boots?' i'd probably say "no, they look silly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmutt Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Firstly, the fact that something is expensive does not by any means mean that it's not silly and that it's got 'class'. All it means is you have to pay more for it than cheap stuff. I accept however, that it is just my opinion that they're silly, but don't tell me i can't have it! And this is not one of the times when my opinion should be kept to myself, this is a public forum, it's like pretty much the opposite! I enjoy dressing up too, 'tis fun. But you're doing it again, if you're clothes wern't silly then it wouldn't be 'dressing up' it would just be 'getting changed'. You continue to make a distinction between people that 'dress up' and people who dress 'normally' as well as the people that tease you about it. And thirdly, if i saw a goth or a biker wearing silly boots, i wouldn't call either of them silly, 'cause that would be rude, however if the biker asked me 'd'you like my boots?' i'd probably say "no, they look silly". Lets clear a few things up here if you read my post again you will note that at no stage did i say you could not have an opinion, i did point out that there are times when people should keep them to themselves when it is hurtfull to others. This is all part of having respect for everyone and living in harmony I admit to dress up as a chicken is fun but from a goth point of view it is as you state "getting changed" because it is a way of life and nothing out of the ordinary. If i was to dress as a goth it would be fun and to have that fun every day of the week would be fantastic but alas i am not a goth, however i do have understanding for people who want to be left alone to do their own thing without being abused. Which is the point behind the thread and the gathering in august As for what you call silly boots you clearly wrote it on here without being asked. The point of all this is to let others know that the goth culture is not nasty, violent or drug crazed. They may not wear the same clothes as everyone else or listen to the same music but they are people with feelings that dont want the abuse and violence that is thrown at them. They do not give it to others so why should they take it all the time. I will make a point again of saying i am not goth but as a caring person i can not stand back and watch bullies go as far as killing someone because of the way they look be it goth, skin colour or birth defect. Its wrong and you have to agree on that one because that is what is happening and it needs to stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 As for what you call silly boots you clearly wrote it on here without being asked. The point of all this is to let others know that the goth culture is not nasty, violent or drug crazed. They may not wear the same clothes as everyone else or listen to the same music but they are people with feelings that dont want the abuse and violence that is thrown at them. They do not give it to others so why should they take it all the time. I will make a point again of saying i am not goth but as a caring person i can not stand back and watch bullies go as far as killing someone because of the way they look be it goth, skin colour or birth defect. Its wrong and you have to agree on that one because that is what is happening and it needs to stop I don't think for a single second that 'killing someone because of the way they look' is not hideously wrong, of course. THe point i'm trying to make is just that this fashion group seems to pride itself on being as different as possible and then is surprised when people treat them differently. I think attitudes need to change definatley, but not just those who are beating you up and calling you names, you guys too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19SazzaLou91 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I don't think for a single second that 'killing someone because of the way they look' is not hideously wrong, of course. THe point i'm trying to make is just that this fashion group seems to pride itself on being as different as possible and then is surprised when people treat them differently. I think attitudes need to change definatley, but not just those who are beating you up and calling you names, you guys too. yes, but i personally, nor any of my friends, treat people who dress the opposite of us, or even "out of the ordinary" or "silly" clothes, as you put it in a few messages back, with contempt and hatred, which is all we appear to get. and i'm sorry, but as i said to a friend on here, im not going to into detail, when people end up in hospital after being beaten up and end up in critical conditions, or children my age (14-17) end up hurting themselves or killing themselves because they are fed up of being treated differently, or they are fed up of name calling. im Atheist, but my friend is a Christian and told me to say this: "The Lord made us equal in his eyes, yet forgot to make us all equal to each other." He basically meant that if we're all equal to God, why can't we all be equal to each other. To be honest, the people who think it's cool to treat people differently, or abuse them ought to grow up and get a life, or at least dress like "us alternatives" for a day, and then see what they get. I'll tell you, if it's anything like what people who dress like that everyday, they won't like it and they'll think twice before doing it to people who just happen to be like they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebird Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Again we seem to have to some very strong opinions here... WOW! dont things turn ugly fast on this forum!? I think i should clear a few things up lol My name is Alicia. I'm neither a goth, nor a punk, rocker or emo. I do listen to heavy metal and i like to dress in things that other think are a little on the weird side. As for a label i prefer not to have one as i am, what i feel, when i wake up in the morning. lol I love heavy music, i like rock bars and clubs, i'm a vegetarian and an activist. People always refer to me as 'alternative', thats ok with me i guess - its doesnt sound offensive so if thats how they see it, its fine. I dont give myself a label but others do. In doing research for a documentary project i'm working on, i discovered that many people affiliated with sub-cultures get a really hard time just by being themselves. I always knew this was the case, but i never truely understood how bad it had gotten until i dug a little deeper. Out of the 3000 adults i spoke to, 99% of them reported being abused or attacked at some point in their lives when they'd done nothing to provoke it at all and yes, the assaults were usually because someone took a disliking to their appearance. Out of the hundreds of 14-17 year olds i interviewed, only 1 - ONE! said that she'd not been attacked, beaten up or bullied for being a goth. That really alarmed me and when i asked them to tell me their stories i was mortified. One girl had her whole head set alight. One boy had the faculty pin him down and shave off his hair. And the list went on and on.... Its so sad that our children cant express themselves in the way they want to without that kind of thing happening to them.... I'm not saying these people are perfect, neither am i degrading anyone else by arranging the march. Something is wrong somewhere and it needs to stop. If you cant truely be yourself (and i dont just mean goths etc) without being burnt, stabbed, kicked or killed for it, then we need to address this as a serious situation. We will all march together, side by side in support of this movement for peace between ALL mankind. We are all brothers and sisters on the same earth and we should all respect each other regardless of what your lifestyle choices are or where you come from. No-one is here to attack or pull down anyone else, neither is anyone here to wave the 'awesomeness' flag! We just want to stop the deaths and the attacks. If you attack someone on this forum, then youre going to get bitten back when their defenses are pulled into force. Stop pulling people apart, its the whole thing we're trying to stop. And, jimmy - i do hope you are not targeting me in that comment about 'you guys' needing to change the attitude? you said yourself, that you didnt even bother reading the rest of the forum... waste of time apparently but yet your time is obviously useful enough to come on here and post comments (?!) Point is, if you'd read the rest of the forum you'd have seen people come in and start verbal garbage aimed at pulling us down and people have returned remarks in defending themselves. Everything goes ok for a while and then you come in and start it all back up again. I'm not having a go but please try and understand what were trying to do here... were not here to attack, we're here to make peace. Can we please just get back on topic a bit now! lol Hate is easy - love takes courage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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