What happened on the kop last night???

[Annoni_mouse 10]

And if everyone just stopped fighting and wasn't so greedy then we'd have world peace. Your point?

 

Stick to the point in hand. You keep on muddying the waters by bringing everything from community self policing to world peace into the equation. This isn’t about any of that. It’s about football violence, nothing more. Grown me behaving like thugs and in an illegal manner.

 

I propose imperfect solutions to problems in an imperfect world. You propose solutions that belong in a perfect world but fail in this one.

 

Far from it. I've already demonstrated by way of Scottf's experience how its perfectly possible to solve a dispute such as that which allegedly happened on Tuesday night WITHOUT resorting to violence. So that would suggest that a none violent option is a viable alternative in 'this' world. Can you offer me an explanation as to why such actions have to result in violence? Are the men who carry out such acts so weak that they cannot control their base impulses?

 

The excuse that 'its a local derby, passions run high' is no excuse at all. Using 'Passion' as a plea can be used to justify any number of actions that most right-minded people find abhorrent.

 

After the derby game at Hillsborough, a blade friend of mine told me about a father and son (both United fans) who were walking through Hillsborough park. Allegedly, a group of Wednesday fans jumped the man and his son (who was no older than 15) and beat the crap out of them for wearing United shirts. If it’s true, is that acceptable too? Were the United fans to blame for wearing the wrong shirts in a Wednesday area? Or does, as I would say now and I did say at the time, the burden of blame lie with the attackers?

[scottf 21]

As for the Owls fans being pelted with coins, urine and other missiles, I had been saying since I heard that Wednesday were only being given the lower tier that it's just asking for that kind of thing to happen.

 

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!! AT ALL!!!

 

ITS JUST PEOPLE TRYING TO STIR THINGS UP.

 

 

this is how rumours start and before you know it, someone will know someone who had to go to hospital cos of it and next thing you know at the next match wednesday fans will pelt us with coins cos 'they did it to us' etc etc.

[scottf 21]

Are the men who carry out such acts so weak that they cannot control their base impulses?

 

I think you have just hit the nail on the head my friend.

[Robbie Loving 10]

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!! AT ALL!!!

 

ITS JUST PEOPLE TRYING TO STIR THINGS UP..

 

I wouldn't discount it completly Scott.

 

Whilst you may not have seen it, does not mean it didn't happen.

[bladesufc1 10]

they just shouldn't have been in the united ends full stop.

 

the making of firms within the grounds was to stop exactly this, away supporters getting in to the home fans area,

 

aways fans used to get BIG crews to go in the home end and start trouble.

[scottf 21]

I wouldn't discount it completly Scott.

 

Whilst you may not have seen it, does not mean it didn't happen.

 

i know robbie and i said in an another post that at least 2 bottles did go over the side but both missed the supporters, and there is no possible way you could have spat on them, there were stewards sat down all along the wall att he bottom facing the supporters and you would have to spit over there heads to hit them.

[geocol 10]

I can confirm full bottles of "drink" (and I use that term loosely) came down (and not from the Gods) onto respectable human beings, in front of me when the second Wednesday goal went in.

 

But that is civilsation as we now know it. So much for all the health and safety executives, in and out of football..

 

They should have a case to answer on this one.

[Farmboy 10]

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!! AT ALL!!!

 

ITS JUST PEOPLE TRYING TO STIR THINGS UP.

 

No need to shout.

[ultracynic 10]

i was on the bramall lane upper tier and saw coins going BOTH ways

[lisalee 10]

I could see him from my seat on John Street put me right off my pie

 

Lol mrsteabag :hihi:

[Zamo 10]

Stick to the point in hand. You keep on muddying the waters by bringing everything from community self policing to world peace into the equation. This isn’t about any of that. It’s about football violence, nothing more. Grown me behaving like thugs and in an illegal manner.

 

A problem you rarely see in football grounds nowadays thanks to segregation.

 

Far from it. I've already demonstrated by way of Scottf's experience how its perfectly possible to solve a dispute such as that which allegedly happened on Tuesday night WITHOUT resorting to violence. So that would suggest that a none violent option is a viable alternative in 'this' world.

 

You example proves nothing except there are exceptions to all rules.

 

What is without question is that if you mix supporters then you'll see violence in football grounds and if you keep them apart then you'll see none. In order to maintain segregation there needs to be consequences that act as a deterrent to those who'd flout the rules. If the authorities don't provide this (and they don't as your example proves) then it is up to people to provide their own deterrent or their failure to act will encourage this behaviour and increases the risk of larger scale disorder in the future.

 

A slap was rightly administered to the wrong doers and as a result they won't be in a hurry to do it again and nor with others who hear about it. The problem was nipped in the bud and future peace preserved. Job done.

 

Can you offer me an explanation as to why such actions have to result in violence? Are the men who carry out such acts so weak that they cannot control their base impulses?

 

Why do you need an explanation? You just need to know it's a reality that can't be dealt with by wishful thinking.

 

After the derby game at Hillsborough, a blade friend of mine told me about a father and son (both United fans) who were walking through Hillsborough park. Allegedly, a group of Wednesday fans jumped the man and his son (who was no older than 15) and beat the crap out of them for wearing United shirts. If it’s true, is that acceptable too? Were the United fans to blame for wearing the wrong shirts in a Wednesday area? Or does, as I would say now and I did say at the time, the burden of blame lie with the attackers?

 

If your example is true then the attackers are out of order because wearing your colours in a public park is not provocation that in any way justifies a physical attack. If however the United fans ran up to a group of Owl fans to wind them up following a win (which is what the Owl fans effectively did in the Kop) and got a slap then you'd have to say they brought it upon themselves and that a reasonable deterrent was administered!

[Annoni_mouse 10]

A problem you rarely see in football grounds nowadays thanks to segregation.

 

Well, using your spurious reasoning, segregation would never have been introduced. Fans would have been allowed to police themselves, unfettered by the long arm of the law. So it’s exactly as a result of the authorities taking control of the problem that has seen the violence drop.

 

You example proves nothing except there are exceptions to all rules.

 

As this can't be proven either way we will have to agree to disagree.

 

What is without question is that if you mix supporters then you'll see violence in football grounds and if you keep them apart then you'll see none. In order to maintain segregation there needs to be consequences that act as a deterrent to those who'd flout the rules. If the authorities don't provide this (and they don't as your example proves) then it is up to people to provide their own deterrent or their failure to act will encourage this behaviour and increases the risk of larger scale disorder in the future.

 

I would agree that it appears that the Police on this occasion were slow to react, perhaps exasperating the situation. I still strongly disagree that it is OK in that situation for the thugs to take over. That’s not 'community policing' or any other romantic name you might wish to call it. Its anarchy, plane and simple. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

Why do you need an explanation? You just need to know it's a reality that can't be dealt with by wishful thinking.

 

I need an explanation because I, as a man in his mid 30's, cannot conceive how someone would think if you get hammered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time is OK? And its got nothing to do with 'wishful thinking' that’s the way the law works in this country. It may not be perfect, but it’s a site better than the mob rule carnage you propose. But apparently, football stadia are not subject to the same rules as everywhere else:roll:

 

If your example is true then the attackers are out of order because wearing your colours in a public park is not provocation that in any way justifies a physical attack. If however the United fans ran up to a group of Owl fans to wind them up following a win (which is what the Owl fans effectively did in the Kop) and got a slap then you'd have to say they brought it upon themselves and that a reasonable deterrent was administered!

 

1/ We don’t know for certain that it was purely down to the Owls fans on the kop that caused this violence to erupt - there seems to be some suggestion from certain posters on here that at least some of it was blade on blade.

 

2/ The story as I've heard it is that IF it was purely Owls fans who were involved, they got the beating as a result of cheering the second goal - I doubt they were running up to the rest of the blades on the kop to 'wind them up'. Again you and I have very different opinions on what warrants a beating.

 

You made a comment about in one of your earlier posts about imperfect solutions for an imperfect world. Well, if that’s the case and grown men can’t be trusted to behave in a civilised way, then maybe the stands should be converted into cattle pens. One lot of fans fastened in on one side, the opposition on the other. If people want to behave like animals, then treat them like animals.