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School Children's Finger Prints Taken Without Consent!

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I'm not sure what scares me more, the whole biometrics/database/ID card thing, or the complacency of attitudes like this.

 

As they say - 'you don't know what you've got till it's gone'. Our freedom has been steadily draining away for years.

We are very nearly a police state as it is - prevention of terrorism laws have taken police powers to a mind blowing level. Ignore these 'little' changes at your peril.

 

Children's minds are influenced by colourful cartoons, computer games, ads, super heros etc etc etc, relentlessly, right from their earliest years; until, by innocuous increments, their whole mindset is somewhere beyond your control; their whole existance is soon governed by the need to possess, to own briefly their hearts desire and then to discard it and move on to their NEXT obsession.

 

By the time they're teenagers they're well on the way to terminal indebtedness - where, for many, drugs and crime become viable 'escape routes'.

 

So maybe it is just an idea to save time and money; people will be easier to track down, after they've been wrung out by the evils of mindless consumerism, if they're finger printed as kids.

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I've not come across the taking of finger prints but I'm highly sceptical about this.

 

Schools have been taking photographs of children for years - every year when the school photographer comes copies of the pictures are kept on the individual records of each child. There's nothing dodgy about this - they aren't released outside the education system.

 

These days some schools do request parents' permission for pictures of their children to used on the school's website (these tend to be ones of children at work / play within the school) and they won't use them if permission is denied.

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Why do police use them then?
Police take physical prints of the indentations on the fingers, scan that into a computer as a photograph, and create a complete computer analysis of those indentations for searching/comparing by computer.

 

Schools use a scanner (not ink and paper) to create a numerical code from the indentations on one finger (not all ten) which is then associated with the various data about the pupil (library books, perhaps registration or food account etc).

 

This isn't the same thing at all.

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You can't say whether or not you like change per se. This is a bad change and lectrolove is right to say that complacent attitudes such as yours on this issue are the scary thing.

 

please explain why?? so you wont be updating your passort when yours runs out then??? or driving license??

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So are you saying that if the police take fingerprints off something and then check if they are on a database compiled by scanning they won't find it if it's there? I don't think so. This raises the issue that the DNA debate raises about mistaken identity.

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please explain why?? so you wont be updating your passort when yours runs out then??? or driving license??
I've no choice but I'll do it reluctantly and support any attempts to stop giving unneccessary information to the authorities.

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[quote=fred_notdead;2160191

 

ITS JUST A GAME

At one primary school children were told "Lets play the game of spies. Its just a game, so theres no need to tell your parents."

 

 

 

 

this part of the quote worries me in todays world we should encourage our kids to be oopen and honest not the teachers saying dont tell your parents. if my child was at this school i would take issue over this, my child was brought up with there is no such things as secrets it is i feel bad to say things like this,

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ITS JUST A GAME

At one primary school children were told "Lets play the game of spies. Its just a game, so theres no need to tell your parents." They were then split up into groups of five or six and every single child was fingerprinted and photographed. We feel this is an appalling breach of trust by the school in question.

 

Which school, where ?

 

Without anything to back it up that just sounds a bit hysterical.

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ITS JUST A GAME

At one primary school children were told "Lets play the game of spies. Its just a game, so theres no need to tell your parents."

 

 

 

this part of the quote worries me in todays world we should encourage our kids to be oopen and honest not the teachers saying dont tell your parents. if my child was at this school i would take issue over this, my child was brought up with there is no such things as secrets it is i feel bad to say things like this,

 

This would probably be illegal behaviour.

It varies but the average age that children are deemed aware enough to consent to giving biometrics is 13. At 6 they are definitely not capable of giving that consent.

 

Is there a source for this actually or is it just a rumour?

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please explain why?? so you wont be updating your passort when yours runs out then??? or driving license??

 

Because collecting biometrics means that you are automatically a suspect for every crime that's committed. And if your name comes up as a false positive then you'll be arrested and have to prove your innocence.

It also means that the police will come to rely on this database of biometrics more than they should.

 

I'm not a criminal, the government has no right to collect any biometric information about me.

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So are you saying that if the police take fingerprints off something and then check if they are on a database compiled by scanning they won't find it if it's there? I don't think so. This raises the issue that the DNA debate raises about mistaken identity.
I'm not sure I understand your question (was it directed at me?!) but I'll try to answer what I think you're asking.

 

Could the school databases, (or the Co-op databases) be used by the police to check fingerprints found at a crime scene? No. I don't believe that they could. I could be wrong, but my understanding of the technology is that they are very very different ways of processing data derived from the ridges on the fingers.

 

This is aside from the fact that children (and Co-op customers) are only having one finger scanned, not all ten.

 

If the Police take fingerprints from a crime scene, they check them against a database of other fingerprints taken by the police: of those who have been convicted of offences and of some of those fingerprinted as suspects in crimes (I'm not sure about the precise circumstances in which those are kept) along with fingerprints taken from others who could have legitimately left fingerprints in the area, in order to identify illegitimate fingerprints. These are destroyed, I believe, after the investigation is over. The fingerprints of convicted criminals are added to a computer database which digitises a photo of the fingerprint. This is a completely different level of data gathering than is being carried out by schools, or the Co-op, or even by the US INS when people enter and leave the USA and have a finger scanned.

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Surely a fingerprint is a fingerprint regardless of how the data is collected and whatever method is used for collecting the print it can then be compared with a print sample on a fingerprint database.

 

I had to put my thumb on a pad at immigration control when I was in America, my print came up on a big screen which was studied by the officer and that was used to make a comparison with something and then stored by the US authorities for future use. So I would presume that if they found my dabs at the scene of a crime they could match it with the details they acquired at immigration.

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