Starbucks Coffee Co. - coming to Sheffield

[Tony 10]

Starbucks certainly isn't abhorrent, but it does tend towards the bland at the first opportunity,

 

Luckily there are at least 2/3/4 coffee houses in Sheffield where you can enjoy the subtleties of quality Batista's rather than the homogenised pap that most people associate with as being a step up from Netscape!!!

[JonJParr 10]

Starbucks, as you rightly point out, do have massive buying power. But this is as a result of a successful business and brand. Is this a bad thing?

Whilst we all may have our own views about corporate giants and capitalism many of us agree that it makes our lives easier. The majority of the UK population buy their food from a supermarket. A supermarket- be it Tesco, M&S, Sainsburys or Asda all have buying power; it's how they can provide us with all the products we need for our Christmas Day lunch under one roof. Who wants to have to go to four different food outlets?

 

Take Starbucks in Tudor Square for example - it is now in direct competition with Zoobies in the Peace Gardens. Is this a bad thing? If Starbucks really does serve rubbish beverages then surely people will come to realise this and go elsewhere. The fate of Zoobies is assured because of its far superior range of sandwiches. The reality is that Starbucks beverages are OK. They're not amazing- but they're not junk either. To the thousands of people that Starbucks serves everyday their drinks really hit the spot. Otherwise why would they keep going back?

 

So Starbucks is a successful corporate giant- so is Tesco and Asda but none of us complain about them. Capitalism and corporate giants are here to stay, might as well get used to it.

[tom_common 10]

Hi Jon,

 

No, the problem isn't competition, it's aggressive expansion. As has already been said on this thread, I think, Starbucks have a policy of clustering and cannibalism: opening lots of new outlets in the same area, to take customers from both independent outlets and their own branches. Then, when the independent outlets have closed down, starbucks close down their own loss-making branches, leaving just a couple of starbucks (or other corporate competitors)

 

I know that this might seem like a simple change; like the whole tesco versus local shopping thing. A move from lots of independents to one organisation. Progress. But it's not necessarily because they do it better, but because they do it bigger. After a while there is no choice: I can't shop at my local butchers and bakers now, because they have gone.

 

Plus there are the hidden costs of the whole population shopping at five places; tesco can set the prices for produce, paying producers very little; you have to drive to the supermarket, making car use and petrol consumption essential; vulnerable people who use community facilities can't access them because they've been surplanted by a big tesco a mile away.

 

Capitalism doesn't stop at choice; it doesn't let you keep anything back. With tesco and starbucks it's all or nothing.

Like privatisation or the expansion of out of town shopping developments, it's presented as a fait accompli, the easiest way, when in fact there are different ways of doing things that have people at the centre.

 

this is a conversation I have with a lot of people. Most of them are happy with their lives being a bit easier, and don't want to know. I don't know as much as you about coffee, and I realise that starbucks isn't the worst thing in the world: but I wish people would say no sometimes, and keep a bit of power for themselves.

 

Plus Cafe No 9 is super cool

[JonJParr 10]

Starbucks aggressive expansion policy is not admirable and questionably immoral but it's business. Starbucks Coffee Company have shareholders (like any major corporation) that they must make profit for. At the end of the day it all comes down to money whether it be in the pockets of shareholders, pockets of small business owners or us, the consumer.

How many of us can say the we would shop at our local butcher if he were selling a couple of fillet steaks for £7 and Tesco were selling them for £5.50. I know where my money would go.

 

I often find that small businesses are less inclined to innovate like the large corporations, either because they can't afford to or don't want to. Using Starbucks as an example- Gingerbread Lattes, Eggnog Lattes, Chocolate Mint Bliss, Gingerbread Men - all served with Christmas Cheer. I didn't see Zoobies doing a line of Christmas beverages. So why should they get my business and my hard-earned cash?

 

It's all about choice, product innovation and ultimately price. Aggressive expansion policy or just a good business plan?

[Miss 10]

Originally posted by JonJParr

Starbucks aggressive expansion policy is not admirable and questionably immoral but it's business. Starbucks Coffee Company have shareholders (like any major corporation) that they must make profit for. At the end of the day it all comes down to money whether it be in the pockets of shareholders, pockets of small business owners or us, the consumer.

How many of us can say the we would shop at our local butcher if he were selling a couple of fillet steaks for £7 and Tesco were selling them for £5.50. I know where my money would go.

 

I often find that small businesses are less inclined to innovate like the large corporations, either because they can't afford to or don't want to. Using Starbucks as an example- Gingerbread Lattes, Eggnog Lattes, Chocolate Mint Bliss, Gingerbread Men - all served with Christmas Cheer. I didn't see Zoobies doing a line of Christmas beverages. So why should they get my business and my hard-earned cash?

 

It's all about choice, product innovation and ultimately price. Aggressive expansion policy or just a good business plan?

 

**In awe** Give that man a cigar. He KNOWS what he's talking about.

[Disco_Cat 10]

Originally posted by JonJParr

It's all about choice, product innovation and ultimately price. Aggressive expansion policy or just a good business plan?

 

You admit in your first post Starbucks sells a sub standard product. What will the choice be when their aggressive expansion means that smaller venues selling decent coffee have to close leaving no choice but their sub standard coffee. You may be happy to walk past rows and rows of Starbucks smiling at their brilliant business plan whilst imaging all their satisfied shareholders, personally I’d prefer to drink a decent cup of coffee.

 

I think given their financial capabilities Zoobies is the most innovative business I’ve ever seen. Considering that that shop functions with an incomparably low budget compared to its multi national neighbour, and Zoobies has done it without breaking any planning laws. But the presence of places like Starbucks can only hampers and restrict such local businesses ambitions and abilities, something that I think is rather sad.

[JoeP 11]

Originally posted by Disco_Cat

 

I think given their financial capabilities Zoobies is the most innovative business I’ve ever seen. Considering that that shop functions with an incomparably low budget compared to its multi national neighbour, and Zoobies has done it without breaking any planning laws. But the presence of places like Starbucks can only hampers and restrict such local businesses ambitions and abilities, something that I think is rather sad.

 

A business is either innovative within it's market place or it isn't. Innovation is ultimately comparative and is an ongoing process. Yes, Starbucks will have a bigger budget and that will help them implement the innovative ideas, but it won't necessarily help generate the ideas.

 

If Zoobies has bright people, their ability to innovate will be equivalent, but their ability to implement may be restricted.

 

That, people, is business. That's the market place. It's hard, but that does not mean that a company that can operate effectively in the market is necessarily immoral just because it's big.

 

How does the rpesence of Starbucks hamper and erstrict local business? Zoobies has competition - if a business can't compete then it doesn't deserve to survive. My own line of work is IT development - I now have to compete against people who can come in at a quarter of my rate from all over the world. I either innovate and compete or fall by the wayside.

 

And the same has to apply to any business.

 

Joe

[JonJParr 10]

Originally posted by Disco_Cat

You admit in your first post Starbucks sells a sub standard product.

 

Actually, I think I said that "I find Starbucks to be uniformly over-roasted coffee" and "I generally avoid buying beverages at Starbucks" because I have a fairly astute palate when it comes to coffee now.

Starbucks is in no way a "sub standard" product. Their beverages are produced using good quality beans. I notice the difference because the espresso beans I use have been freshly roasted and ground. When you bear in mind that espresso beans lose a lot of their flavour within three hours of being ground you can understand why, as a coffee geek, I choose to do this.

Did you know that Baristas at Starbucks have to pass examinations in coffee preparation before they're allowed to create beverages? I think that shows a willingness to try and keep the standard of the product high. How many other businesses can state that they do this?

 

Starbucks may have broken planning laws but the people of Sheffield have spoken. Starbucks is always busy! If the reason for your hatred of Starbucks is a sentiment to side with small businesses then you may be interested to know that Starbucks started out as a single coffee shop in Seattle in 1971. Surely you realise that a sound business plan has to incorporate a ruthless element?

[Disco_Cat 10]

Originally posted by JonJParr

Did you know that Baristas at Starbucks have to pass examinations in coffee preparation before they're allowed to create beverages? I think that shows a willingness to try and keep the standard of the product high. How many other businesses can state that they do this?

When I started work at McDonalds I had to pass a test in food hygiene, the test however consisted of copying answers from a sheet of paper. This experience has left me a little cynical to the realties of in house exams for such companies.

 

At the end of the day this is a debate which reveals a fundamental difference between people and their ethics and I suspect neither of us is going to change their opinions. You see a Starbucks on every street corner and view it as a triumph of free market economics that one company can dominate a sector and provide its shareholders (how many of them come from Sheffield?) with extra cash.

 

On the other hand I think it’s sad that that so many coffee growers are being exploited to provide people with their fancy sounding drinks while locally, independent business are loosing out to a company which they have no possibility of competing with.

 

Some people see this as the wonder of business. I see it as injustice. But then I guess that’s why I’ll never go in a starbucks.

[Miss 10]

Originally posted by Disco_Cat

Some people see this as the wonder of business. I see it as injustice. But then I guess that’s why I’ll never go in a starbucks.

 

Unfortunately, that's life these days.

 

The whole Starbucks vs the independant coffee vendor is just one small battle in the whole big corporations taking over the smaller, often better, independant retailer war.

 

Take a look at the thread about Subway on Eccy Rd. Hopefully, Eccy Rd will continue to deny access to the soulless bigger chains in favour of character of little man.

[nick2 10]

Originally posted by Miss

Take a look at the thread about Subway on Eccy Rd. Hopefully, Eccy Rd will continue to deny access to the soulless bigger chains in favour of character of little man.

 

Like Pizza Hut and KFC

 

I think London Road is the only area without a chain franchise ?

[Miss 10]

Originally posted by nick2

Like Tesco and Pizza Hut

 

Ok, so I forgot about those.

 

Still, rumour has it they told Maccy D's to get lost when they wanted to open in Berkley Precinct.