COVID THREAD

[melthebell 864]

1 minute ago, top4718 said:

Like I said neither stops it effectively, your contesting years of research into health and safety to push your failing narrative, unless you wear a mask with a respirator (these would be worn in infectious disease wards) you might as well wear nothing.

again your deliberately conflating the issue to score points

 

ones about using something to slow down transmission, NOT stop it

ones about stopping you from getting ill in the workplace after years of breathing stuff in

[top4718 838]

Just now, melthebell said:

again your deliberately conflating the issue to score points

 

ones about using something to slow down transmission, NOT stop it

ones about stopping you from getting ill in the workplace after years of breathing stuff in

They didn't slow it down though, Scotland and Wales had higher infection rates than England with mask mandates still in place, the stats were linked on here many times, Germany mandated N95 masks and still had high transmission.

[Prettytom 1,648]

10 minutes ago, top4718 said:

They didn't slow it down though, Scotland and Wales had higher infection rates than England with mask mandates still in place, the stats were linked on here many times, Germany mandated N95 masks and still had high transmission.

Must we do this again.

 

You are wrong. Simply selecting one piece of evidence to support your views, isn’t science, it’s just confirmation bias.

 

There is tons of evidence out there that masks, even poor masks, limit the spread of respiratory viruses. 
 

I know that this is futile, but here are a few links to proper scientific studies:

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302
 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2119266119
 

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S2468-2667(22)00040-8/fulltext
 

Not a dog, or a coyote in sight.

[RJRB 688]

I know that you like to reduce the mask wearing issue to a simple black and white issue.

I have only ever worn a mask where it was dictated by wherever I wanted to go.

In my case that was in supermarkets and one concert that we had tickets for before the pandemic and one of the earliest ones allowed to take place subject to mask wearing.

Coming from a metal processing industry I am reasonably conversant with the dangers of inhaling  fumes and ingesting heavy metal particles ,and we were provided with approved PPE.

There have also been times when I have been exposed to fumes and instinct tells your cover your mouth and nose.

That is the only issue that I argue when something may be better than nothing.

 

[onewheeldave 22]

12 minutes ago, Prettytom said:

Must we do this again.

 

You are wrong. Simply selecting one piece of evidence to support your views, isn’t science, it’s just confirmation bias.

 

There is tons of evidence out there that masks, even poor masks, limit the spread of respiratory viruses. 
 

I know that this is futile, but here are a few links to proper scientific studies:

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302
 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2119266119
 

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S2468-2667(22)00040-8/fulltext
 

Not a dog, or a coyote in sight.

Cochrane, having reviewed the relevant high quality studies, disagrees-

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

[Prettytom 1,648]

4 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Cochrane, having reviewed the relevant high quality studies, disagrees-

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

This limited study by Cochrane doesn’t draw any firm conclusions.

 

So, how can you claim that they disagree?

[Longcol 608]

30 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Cochrane, having reviewed the relevant high quality studies, disagrees-

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

Beg to differ.

 

 

[onewheeldave 22]

11 hours ago, Prettytom said:

This limited study by Cochrane doesn’t draw any firm conclusions.

 

So, how can you claim that they disagree?

 

11 hours ago, Prettytom said:

 

 

There is tons of evidence out there that masks, even poor masks, limit the spread of respiratory viruses. 
 

 

to anyone who says anything like the above, the Cochrane study disagrees-

 

"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks."

 

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

[redruby 280]

The is a lot of Covid around at the moment.

[Longcol 608]

10 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

 

to anyone who says anything like the above, the Cochrane study disagrees-

 

"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks."

 

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

You missed out the preceding sentence - "There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect." 

 

And the concluding sentence - "There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs."

 

Given the above conclusion - how are 2 trials during covid in any way definitive.

 

"The evidence summarised in this review on the use of masks is largely based on studies conducted during traditional peak respiratory virus infection seasons up until 2016. Two relevant randomised trials conducted during the COVID‐19 pandemic have been published"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[onewheeldave 22]

12 minutes ago, Longcol said:

You missed out the preceding sentence - "There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect." 

 

And the concluding sentence - "There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs."

 

Given the above conclusion - how are 2 trials during covid in any way definitive.

 

"The evidence summarised in this review on the use of masks is largely based on studies conducted during traditional peak respiratory virus infection seasons up until 2016. Two relevant randomised trials conducted during the COVID‐19 pandemic have been published"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remember, I posted that extract in response to another poster claiming that

22 hours ago, Prettytom said:

 

 

There is tons of evidence out there that masks, even poor masks, limit the spread of respiratory viruses. 
 

I know that this is futile, but here are a few links to proper scientific studies:

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302
 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2119266119
 

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S2468-2667(22)00040-8/fulltext
 

Not a dog, or a coyote in sight.

Cochrane, the gold standard for scientific evidence appraisal, are saying that there is no quality evidence that masks reduce infection.

11 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

 

to anyone who says anything like the above, the Cochrane study disagrees-

 

"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks."

 

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

This is important because the authorities pushed masks [and punished those who didn't comply] supposedly because there was evidence of efficacy: there was not [quality] evidence.

They pushed other things [and punished non compliers] without quality evidence. They will not doubt do the same in future epidemics and emergencies. It is important that more of the public are aware of this.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by onewheeldave

[Prettytom 1,648]

11 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

Cochrane, the gold standard for scientific evidence appraisal, are saying that there is no quality evidence that masks reduce infection.

 

 

You should read the whole report.

 

You are misrepresenting their findings.