Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[XPertByExperien 167]

16 minutes ago, Axe said:

I mean the EU negotiating sensibly regarding the Northern Ireland protocol arrangements.  I believe a compromise will be agreed between the UK government and the EU.  I still expect the DUP will not be happy afterwards. Michelle Donelan is correct to make it public the UK is prepared to snub the EU science scheme and work closely with other nations.

 

Yes, I accept it is 'very bad' that some  folk  still look for any opportunity to criticise the democratic choice the UK electorate made to leave the EU. 

Meh, I still believe the "immigrants" non-issue was the root cause of the leave vote!

 

 

 

[harvey19 541]

Sensationalism sells papers and increases media audiences.

Bad news sells papers better than good news.

People love to be told they were right and others made a mistake.

How many years will the results of Brexit be blamed for all the ills in the country ?

I agree some issues could have been handled better but it is time to look forward on ways to improve things in our country instead of looking backwards.

 

 

13 minutes ago, XPertByExperien said:

Meh, I still believe the "immigrants" non-issue was the root cause of the leave vote!

 

 

 

Well that is the view of one of the thousands of people who voted to leave.

22 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Hardly looking... it's getting hard not to constantly fall over them there are now so many issues, and more on a daily basis!

 

Two more today:

 

ONS reports health professional jobs started to go south straight after the referendum... healthcare jobs are now the most common in 9 out of 10 local authorities. They are not being filled, it is hurting the UK economy.

 

BoE - Brexit productivity penalty is £1,000 per household (~£29 billion)

"business investment was 'stopped in its tracks' by the Brexit vote"

 

Yeah, for the better, not significantly worse... which is the point!

 

You were wrong, demonstrably so... by almost any measurable metric, it is a disaster.... and growing more so.

Your personal view  from what you read.

Perhaps you are looking for stories to support your viewpoint.

[Magilla 510]

8 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Sensationalism sells papers and increases media audiences.

None of these claims are sensationalism, they are statements made by the Office of National Statistics and The Bank of England...

 

...major UK institutions.

 

Quote

Bad news sells papers better than good news.

People love to be told they were right and others made a mistake.

How many years will the results of Brexit be blamed for all the ills in the country ?

Brexit will damage the UK in perpetuity, so unless action is taken to mitigate or reverse it... certainly the rest of your, and my, lifetime.

 

Quote

I agree some issues could have been handled better but it is time to look forward on ways to improve things in our country instead of looking backwards.

Some?

 

Can you name anything that has measurably improved?

Edited February 13, 2023 by Magilla

[Magilla 510]

10 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Your personal view  from what you read.

It's not just my view, it's also the view of the ONS and BoE

 

10 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Perhaps you are looking for stories to support your viewpoint.

There are now so many, and more on a daily basis, it's impossible to not see them unless you're desperately not looking.

[harvey19 541]

11 minutes ago, Magilla said:

None of these claims are sensationalism, they are statements made by the Office of National Statistics and The Bank of England...

 

...major UK institutions.

 

Brexit will damage the UK in perpetuity, so unless action is taken to mitigate or reverse it... certainly the rest of your, and my, lifetime.

 

Some?

 

Can you name anything that has measurably improved?

I just accept the democratic vote of the population happened.

I do not look for pros and cons but realise the advantages will not be shouted about and just happen.

6 minutes ago, Magilla said:

It's not just my view, it's also the view of the ONS and BoE

 

There are now so many, and more on a daily basis, it's impossible to not see them unless you're desperately not looking.

I agree there are some things which should have happened in a much better way and that is why I state we need to look forward and improve these situations instead of just saying Brexit was wrong.

It is like your wife buying you a car as a present.

The car has mechanical problems.

It is pointless to keep blaming your wife for buying the wrong make of car.

You fix the mechanical problems and then enjoy your present.

( The result of blaming your wife for buying you the wrong make of car would probably result in a lack of interest in buying you future presents just as constantly complaining about Brexit will probably demotivate ministers etc.)

Edited February 13, 2023 by harvey19

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

Both links from a while back - anything a little more recent? A straight answer will suffice.

Not got the time to spare now, so happy enough to answer a straight ‘no’.

1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

This not personal, as I am aware the EU is the 'Holy Grail' to you - your prerogative - but do you have comparative figures for the EU/EU waters?

Then don’t make it personal by attributing something to me, which isn’t true 😉

 

The EU is not ‘the Holy Grail’ to me, far from it.
 

It was, and still is, simply the best amongst several types of socio-economic models available in a complex world growing fractious and pulling the trading blanket to themselves in ever-larger blocs, ranging from the splendid isolationism of North Korea (e.g.) to full-fat federalism like the US and Germany (e.g.).

 

That doesn’t make it a ‘Grail’, nor perfect by any means. It pays to filter the mountains of disingenuous manure heaped onto the EU over decades by the UK press and self-serving politicians, to understand what the EU actually is (…thus being the topmost question asked on Google the day after the 2016 referendum, lest we forget 😉) and *also* is *not*, how it actually *works*, etc. to understand what it is that the UK was part of, what it could rightfully expect from that membership *and not*, what it left behind when it Brexited - because all of that full explains why things have been happening the way they have,  continue to happen right now, and will continue to happen so long as the model stays as ‘WA + TCA’.

 

It’s dry, complicated, terminally boring. And for that reason, absolutely not reducible to 3-word slogans, nor easy 2-lines solutions to highly complex geopolitical issues, nor pub counter-grade debate (once you get into the detail…and EU membership and Brexit are each all about ‘the details’).

 

EU27 water quality is still regulated by directives so no, I don’t have comparative figures for EU waters. Although at least another one of these ‘old links’ (which I didn’t link, it’s a 2020 or 2021 government paper by Chris Whitty about danger of sewer discharges to public health) mentions 500 blue flag rivers in France compared to the UK’s…2.

 

Edit-dug into my browsing history, here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sewage-in-water-a-growing-public-health-problem

Edited February 13, 2023 by L00b

[Magilla 510]

10 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I just accept the democratic vote of the population happened.

So that would be a "no" then... who knew!

 

Quote

I do not look for pros and cons but realise the advantages will not be shouted about and just happen.

Well sure... you wouldn't... you're the one who voted for a lemon.

 

What was "Project Fear"... now it's actually happening... is suddenly "sensationalism"

Edited February 13, 2023 by Magilla

[Axe 836]

29 minutes ago, XPertByExperien said:

Meh, I still believe the "immigrants" non-issue was the root cause of the leave vote!

 

 

 

It is unfair to claim immigrants was a non issue or imply there were not other issues which is the reason why folk chose to vote leave.

 

I have friends from the Netherlands who have lived near me for about 20 years. One of the reasons I decided to vote remain was I had concerns leaving the EU would affect them more than me.  My friends have told me they have hardly been affected since the UK left the EU and continue to be happy living and working in the UK.

[RollingJ 2,043]

2 minutes ago, L00b said:

Not got the time to spare now, so happy enough to answer a straight ‘no’.  (1)

Then don’t make it personal by attributing something to me, which isn’t true 😉 (2)

 

The EU is not ‘the Holy Grail’ to me, far from it. It was, and still is, simply the best amongst several types of socio-economic models available in a complex world, ranging from the splendid isolationism of North Korea (e.g.) to full-fat federalism like the US and Germany (e.g.). (3)

 

That doesn’t make it a ‘Grail’, nor perfect by any means. (4)

 

EU27 water quality is still regulated by directives so no, I don’t have comparative figures for EU waters. Although at least another one of these ‘old links’ (which I didn’t link, it’s a 2020 or 2021 government paper by Chris Whitty about danger of sewer discharges to public health) mentions 500 blue flag beaches in France compared to the UK’s…2. (5)

(1) Thank you.

(2) Apologies.

(3) In your opinion - BTW, had it remained a trading partnership, I would agree with you.

(4) Apologies again - I recognise you have mildly criticised it in the past.

(5) I thought we were talking about 'dodgy' meat?

[Magilla 510]

1 minute ago, Axe said:

My friends have told me they have hardly been affected since the UK left the EU and continue to be happy living and working in the UK.

Of course, they are EU passport holders, they have far more rights and freedoms than anyone now holding a UK one... even when living in the UK.

 

It's not quite as rosy for UK citizens in the EU though...

[m williamson 802]

It is pointless arguing with anyone who is still maintaining at this point that Brexit was a good idea. It is a self evident disaster and anyone continuing to deny that is simply ignoring facts presumably because they refuse to accept that they made a mistake and have caused damage to this country.

There have been no advantages thus far and there are no discernable future advantages to be seen. The very fact that Brexiteers feel the need to argue and defend Brexit years after it happened is proof enough that things are not working out to anyones satisfaction, other to the 1% who have become richer while the majority of the rest of the population have become poorer.

 

We've left and we're not going back,  so we need to make the best arrangement for the country's future that we possibly can. Time for politicians to put the countrys welfare before their own self interest by rejoining the Single Market. I doubt they will do that and so the self inflicted damage will continue.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-cost-trade-eu-b1843018.html

[L00b 441]

17 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

(1) Thank you.

(2) Apologies.

(3) In your opinion - BTW, had it remained a trading partnership, I would agree with you.

(4) Apologies again - I recognise you have mildly criticised it in the past.

(5) I thought we were talking about 'dodgy' meat?

No need of apologies, so long as ad hominems are kept at bay. Wink emoticon is always friendly, not angry 😉

(3) well yes, of course. Though the GDP performance of the UK since, besides the myriad problems developed in the UK since (in comparative terms viz the EU27);would tend to validate that notion. Of course, still, that all depends on the weight that one ascribes to the economy relative to ‘the rest’ (sovereignty, immigration, healthcare, etc, etc, etc) as a factor of national wellbeing. I happen to believe that, without a strong economy, there’s too little wealth getting created to pay for the luxury of that ‘rest’. Maybe a bit old fashioned. I dunno.

 

(5) you originally asked me for data about both (food poisoning and water poisoning)?

 

Happy to curtail to 1 sub-topic, or stick to these 2, or expand…there’s unfortunately more besides these 2.

Edited February 13, 2023 by L00b