Eccy Beach   11 #73 Posted August 30, 2018 This is true, but unfortunately the majority of Sheffielders still rant about Thatcher and will only ever vote red  Lazy stereotype klaxon!!!  In the past ten years we've had three years of an LD controlled council and three years of a no overall control council.  Hardly the brainwashed red electorate you and others make out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
teeny   10 #74 Posted August 30, 2018 I think what you are not accounting for is that most of the real debate happens behind closed doors before any committee meetings. That's where the decisions are actually made, amongst the ruling group. At the committee meetings, councillors normally vote along party lines.  Sure, it appears more "democratic" because the public can attend and see the decision being made. Most committee meetings also allowed the public to speak if they had something to say on an issue. So, people can have their say and feel their views have been taken account of by decision makers.  But, in reality, the decision has probably already been made, so what you are generally getting is an illusion of inclusion.  A committee system takes more time and costs more money than the "Strong Leader" model currently employed. Councils are already criticised for taking too long and costing too much and budgets are constantly being squeezed, so you can see the attraction of a more streamlined decision making system.  The committee system doesn't cost much more than the strong leadership does , we have to be democratic and we have to do what is best for the people of Sheffield .  ---------- Post added 30-08-2018 at 18:19 ----------  84 Councillors, 10 in the Cabinet.  7 wards out of 28 have a Cabinet member  The Cabinet (12% of Councillors) make all key day to day decisions for ALL of Sheffield.  SCC CABINET MEMBERS, PORTFOLIOS AND WARDS:  Councillor Julie Dore – Chair and Leader of the Council PARK AND ARBOURTHORNE  Councillor Olivia Blake – Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Finance WALKLEY  Councillor Mazher Iqbal – Cabinet Member for Business and Investment DARNALL  •Councillor Jackie Drayton – Cabinet Member for Children and Families BURNGREAVE  Councillor Mary Lea – Cabinet Member for Culture, Parks and Leisure DARNALL  •Councillor Jayne Dunn – Cabinet Member for Education and Skills SOUTHEY  •Councillor Lewis Dagnall – Cabinet Member for Environment and Streetscene GLEADLESS VALLEY  •Councillor Chris Peace – Cabinet Member for Health and Social Care GLEADLESS VALLEY  •Councillor Jim Steinke – Cabinet Member for Neighbourhoods and Community Safety NETHER EDGE AND SHARROW  •Councillor Jack Scott – Cabinet Member for Transport and Development PARK AND ARBOURTHORNE  This is who represents us in sheffield . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
jbagley   10 #75 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) If you are a Sheffield voter and think it's not fair that only 10 out of our 84 councillors have been chosen to have the power to make nearly all decisions, please sign this petition https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sheffield-peoples-petition It only needs 1500 more sigs to force the council into action! Edited June 26, 2019 by jbagley Re-added image cos it went wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Top Cats Hat   10 #76 Posted June 26, 2019 What a strange suggestion. Should we also sign a petition calling on Parliament to make Theresa May’s cabinet more representative as at the moment it is made up largely of white, male conservatives who represent wealthy constituents in London and the South East?  Also claiming that about 10% of councillors make 100% of decisions is misleading. A quick look at the above map shows that those cabinet members tend to be from areas of much higher populations in the centre of Sheffield so may actually represent much more than 10% of Sheffield citizens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
jbagley   10 #77 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) The petition has legal power to start the process of making Sheffield Council more democratic (the national government gave the citizens of Sheffield this power). The Blair gov forced all councils to change to this undemocratic system but in 2011 that gov gave citizens of sheffield legal power to petition for change.  Each electoral area in Sheffield has approximately the same number of voters, that's why the ones nearer the city centre are smaller. If you look at the results of the last local election, you'll see that also those areas tend to be the areas with the lowest turnout (e.g. 23.9% i n Park and Arbothorne). So, in actual fact, those 10 councillors probably elected by LESS people than other councillors!  The Labour party only got about 31% of the vote, but have 100% of the power. A similar thing happened when the LibDems ran the city a while back - they only got around 35% of the vote but 100% of the power! It's not against any particular party - it's about making sure that the councillors that are elected actually have the power most people think they have!  Edited June 26, 2019 by jbagley Fixed error Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
sheffbag   230 #78 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) only 1500 needed? wheres the other 11,000 votes then as your online poll only has 7.5K (and some of those are not correctly filled in so are voided) and you need 20,000 individual and verified Sheffield Resident signatures in order for the council to be forced to do a vote (love to know how you would structure it) . Bearing in mind that you have been running this online poll for nearly a year i don't think the appetite is there  Good luck though Edited June 26, 2019 by sheffbag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
jbagley   10 #79 Posted June 26, 2019 The petition is being run online and on paper. The total so far is 18,500. 1,500 to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
sheffbag   230 #80 Posted June 26, 2019 you have 11,000 individual and verified paper signatures that are not replicated on your online vote at all? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
jbagley   10 #81 Posted June 26, 2019 It seems that over 80% of the people they talk to on the streets (all over Sheffield) immediate;y sign the petition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
sheffbag   230 #82 Posted June 26, 2019 really? then why does it not state that you have 11,000 already? Bear in mind there is no proof that whoever signed is a verified Sheffield resident nor that they have not double voted on the website  Again - good luck to you in your quest but how would you replace it? every councillor gets a vote on everything? Good luck with that  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Planner1   438 #83 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, jbagley said: it's about making sure that the councillors that are elected actually have the power most people think they have!  That won't really happen though will it?  Having seen the Council operate under the current "strong leader" model and previous committee models, I can tell you that the end result is pretty much the same.  The proposed committee model gives more time for "debate" and councillors and the public might get more opportunity to make their points. However, the party in power will still make the decisions behind closed doors in their own group meetings and will mandate the councillors on each committee to vote in the desired way. You might get the odd occasion where the ruling party isn't bothered either way on a decision and lets councillors have a free vote, or you might get the odd upset when councillors don't turn up for a meeting and a vote is lost. But, most councillors vote the way their leaders tell them to on most occasions, so generally the result is the same.  The committee model does have a more "democratic" feel to it because the councillors and public can come to the meetings and potentially speak on matters they want to make a point on. They can also see how their councillors on the committee vote. But, this all takes time and costs money (because of the amount of officer time spent in servicing and attending committee meetings). In my experience, it can take longer to get decisions that way, so initiatives and projects that the public might want can take longer to deliver. 16 minutes ago, jbagley said: It seems that over 80% of the people they talk to on the streets (all over Sheffield) immediate;y sign the petition. There are a lot of people who will sign pretty much any petition you thrust under their noses. Do the people collecting signatures provide a full and comprehensive explanation of the current and proposed systems and the pros and cons of each? Edited June 26, 2019 by Planner1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
jbagley   10 #84 Posted June 26, 2019 The current system would be replaced by a "modernised committee system", where instead of decisions about an area of council service being taken by just 1 councillor in the cabinet, the decisions would be made by a committee of councillors (in other places that use this new system there are about 8 councillors on each committee). Doesn't cost more than current system but is more democratic and all councillors can give input (say if their area would bea ffected by the decision).  This change has been done in about 30 other places already. Most recent is Scarborough, where new Labour council leader announced it (without needing a petition) recently https://scarborough.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/419952/start_time/131000  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...