It's Our City Campaign - Have you Signed?

[Robin-H 11]

On 20/08/2019 at 22:46, Annie Bynnol said:

Who will pay for all the names and addresses to be checked off on our electoral register?

Who will pay for the referendum?

The council could have avoided the need for a referendum. They were given ample chance. 

 

I certainly don't blame the petitioners for this cost. There is nothing wrong with wanting a more democratic council and leadership model. 

 

You seem to be very against it - what are the reasons for that? 

[Annie Bynnol 611]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

The council could have avoided the need for a referendum. They were given ample chance. 

 

I certainly don't blame the petitioners for this cost. There is nothing wrong with wanting a more democratic council and leadership model. 

 

You seem to be very against it - what are the reasons for that? 

People on the electoral register of Sheffield vote for candidate who have a published manifesto on how they stand on certain things.

 

Hundreds and probably thousands of people from all over this country and the world have signed and/or signed multiple times. 

 

Councillors serving are also vetted, disclose their interest and can be held legally responsible.

 

The Political Activists behind this campaign do not disclose their funding, background, interests or their political ambitions.

 

 

Without clarity from these Political Activists, I am concerned that this is a back door route by the the unrepresentative and unelectable to gain power.

[Robin-H 11]

5 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

People on the electoral register of Sheffield vote for candidate who have a published manifesto on how they stand on certain things.

 

Hundreds and probably thousands of people from all over this country and the world have signed and/or signed multiple times. 

 

Councillors serving are also vetted, disclose their interest and can be held legally responsible.

 

The Political Activists behind this campaign do not disclose their funding, background, interests or their political ambitions.

 

 

Without clarity from these Political Activists, I am concerned that this is a back door route by the the unrepresentative and unelectable to gain power.

Explain how that would happen. 

 

You would still have to be an elected councillor surely - this would just widen the number of councillors that would be involved in decision making. How would it make the unelectable gain power? 

[Calvin Payne 10]

If 'thousands' of people from other parts of the country have signed the petition or there are multiple signatures then the petition will not have reached the number required by law. Surely people here don't just think SCC will take the petitioners word for it? Every name is scrutinised.

[Robin-H 11]

5 minutes ago, Calvin Payne said:

If 'thousands' of people from other parts of the country have signed the petition or there are multiple signatures then the petition will not have reached the number required by law. Surely people here don't just think SCC will take the petitioners word for it? Every name is scrutinised.

Indeed. The organisers of the petition are aware that not all of the signatures will  be valid, and so have collected more than necessary in the hopes of offsetting this. 

[Annie Bynnol 611]

In all forms of democracy, it is argued that the electorate is not the only section of society that should be listened to.

Classically  "lobbying" has always been part of how 'interests' have been listened to and had their influence on the committees of legislative and financial bodies.

Many argue at the moment that there has been a huge growth in the scope and method of "lobbying" activity, and many believe that the emphasis "is pushing hard" against what is acceptable.

 

I am concerned that Political Activists can use this change in the way committees work to their own advantage, without disclosing their funding, background, interests and political ambitions.

 

At all levels of politics everything and everyone should be open to public scrutiny and accountable.

 

[Robin-H 11]

1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:

In all forms of democracy, it is argued that the electorate is not the only section of society that should be listened to.

Classically  "lobbying" has always been part of how 'interests' have been listened to and had their influence on the committees of legislative and financial bodies.

Many argue at the moment that there has been a huge growth in the scope and method of "lobbying" activity, and many believe that the emphasis "is pushing hard" against what is acceptable.

 

I am concerned that Political Activists can use this change in the way committees work to their own advantage, without disclosing their funding, background, interests and political ambitions.

 

At all levels of politics everything and everyone should be open to public scrutiny and accountable.

 

That doesn't explain how it makes the unelectable gain power, as you suggested it would. I'm also not sure how it would mean political activists would somehow be able to infiltrate committees etc... 

 

As I understand it, it is just widening the number of councillors who are involved in the decision making process. How does that change mean that it would become possible to infiltrate committees with people without them disclosing their funding, background, interests and political ambitions in a way that isn't possible already... 

[dave_the_m 61]

So whereas before those nefarious lobbyists had to just bribe/cajole the one cabinet member for X,  in future they have to suborn a majority of the members of committee X? Sounds like an improvement to me.

[Annie Bynnol 611]

21 hours ago, Robin-H said:

That doesn't explain how it makes the unelectable gain power, as you suggested it would. I'm also not sure how it would mean political activists would somehow be able to infiltrate committees etc... 

 

As I understand it, it is just widening the number of councillors who are involved in the decision making process. How does that change mean that it would become possible to infiltrate committees with people without them disclosing their funding, background, interests and political ambitions in a way that isn't possible already... 

Never at any stage have I said that "... it would mean political activists would somehow be able to infiltrate committees...",  but it is their business to influence committees.

To do that they will target members of the committee who are disinterested, want political favours in other areas, want to be seen supporting some group or other.

 

This is much easier to do in large committees, and in committees formed of bored, uninformed and co-opted members who are far less motivated and far more easily influenced.

Large committees suffer from all the shenanigans which have evolved over the centuries.

 

Influencers, lobbyists, political activists etc, focus on these people and depending on their aim and seek to control their 'committee' members' views and behaviour, q.v.  smoking, abortion, guns, military sales etc. where Parliamentary members were openly delaying and blocking legislation through procedural trickery like filibustering.

 

I am concerned that this Petition, organised by Political Activists will result in the very same Political Activists having far more influence than ordinary Sheffield voters.

[dave_the_m 61]

15 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

I am concerned that this Petition, organised by Political Activists will result in the very same Political Activists having far more influence than ordinary Sheffield voters.

Ordinary Sheffield voters seem to have very little influence at the moment.

[Annie Bynnol 611]

5 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

Ordinary Sheffield voters seem to have very little influence at the moment.

Ordinary Sheffield voters -can vote, can contact one of their councillor or become a councillors. 

[dave_the_m 61]

49 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Ordinary Sheffield voters -can vote, can contact one of their councillor or become a councillors. 

SCC spent £75k in a failed attempt to get my local councillor imprisoned, banned her from the chamber, refused to let her read the Streets Ahead contract after promising all councillors access, etc.