Mr Trump - All discussion here

[SnailyBoy 10]

Ok then , treat them decently , what do you mean by that ? Welcome illegal immigrants ? give them nice fluffy pillows in their cells ? make sure they have internet access in the cells ? WHAT , other than treat them decently ( and I agree with you on that ) would you think would help the problem ?

 

You're struggling with empathy again. Clear your head of the Trump rhetoric.

 

Put yourself in their situation, why would you want to leave where you live in Mexico/Central America and go to the US?

Edited June 20, 2018 by SnailyBoy

[melthebell 865]

without going through all the threads, what is this thread about gone back a few and I see a kid in cages and shoes from Canada? Havent seen anything about Kid in cages on the news

 

Another one not looking hard enough then, it's all over the place I can see

[Calahonda 11]

The solution? Stop doing it. The other solution? Vote Trump out at the fist opportunity. Or by whatever legal means are available.

 

---------- Post added 19-06-2018 at 21:01 ----------

 

 

 

 

Looks like you're a fan of Trump in more ways than one Calahonda...

 

Anyone who questions you is a fan of Trump, however how anyone votes someone out is a mystery to me, voting an alternative candidate in, is what you must have meant to say, albeit a little difficult by not having a vote.

[Branyy 10]

Seeking asylum isn't a crime.

Exactly. But they didn't follow the procedure of seeking asylum.

 

Do you not realise, or not care that being deprived of the love and physical presence of their parents can have very serious and lifelong consequences for children?

Sure, and this is what the parents should realise first, before they involve themselves and their children in crime. Some of them even force their kids to take the illegal journey across the border alone!

 

Re the 'space force'; do you think it's morally justifiable for Trump to invest many billions of dollars in such a programme ...

Yes.

[SnailyBoy 10]

Exactly. But they didn't follow the procedure of seeking asylum.

 

 

Sure, and this is what the parents should realise first, before they involve themselves and their children in crime. Some of them even force their kids to take the illegal journey across the border alone!

 

 

Yes.

 

Morally bankrupt

[Branyy 10]

Morally bankrupt

 

I'm not really interested in your personal judgement, do you have any actual facts and arguments against the claims?

[SnailyBoy 10]

I'm not really interested in your personal judgement, do you have any actual facts and arguments against the claims?

 

It's obvious your not interested, you're morally bankrupt.

 

Your words are the evidence.

 

How does it feel?

[Branyy 10]

More deeply backward and worrying signs from the US - according the this report they are shortly to announce a withdrawal from the UN Human Rights Council. It's clearly another step away from the light and into the dark.

 

UN Human Rights Council stepped into the dark long time ago, e.g. by putting Saudi ambassador as a chair of committee or collaborating with Hamas terrorists.

[Cyclone 10]

I'm not really interested in your personal judgement, do you have any actual facts and arguments against the claims?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/10/america-asylum-seeker-refugees-human-rights

 

The account of someone trying to claim asylum.

[Branyy 10]

It's obvious your not interested, you're morally bankrupt.

 

Your words are the evidence.

 

How does it feel?

 

I asked for facts, I got "it's obvious, your words are the evidence"...

How does it feel? Indifferent, to be honest. It's just empty words to me and as I said before, I'm not interested in this kind of discussion.

[SnailyBoy 10]

I asked for facts, I got "it's obvious, your words are the evidence"...

How does it feel? Indifferent, to be honest. It's just empty words to me and as I said before, I'm not interested in this kind of discussion.

 

Facts

 

The facts are that children are being separated from their parents and detained in cages.

 

How do you feel about that?

[Cyclone 10]

Oh, and I found this

 

Have you heard that children were separated from their parents under Obama & Clinton? Then, you need a little Facts vs Myths lesson. Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

 

There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research...As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I'll make it easier for you:

 

Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/…/press-rele…/file/1049751/download…

 

Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. https://www.npr.org/…/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-…

 

Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. https://www.nytimes.com/…/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool…

 

Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. https://www.upi.com/…/Donald-Trumps-wall-ign…/2621477498203/

 

Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/…/ms-l-v-ice-plaintiffs-opposition-def…

 

Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: http://www.politifact.com/…/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asyl…/

 

Myth: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. https://www.independent.co.uk/…/trump-democrats-us-border-m…

 

Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. https://www.aclu.org/…/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-wides…

 

Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. https://www.bloomberg.com/…/aclu-suit-over-child-separation…

 

---------- Post added 20-06-2018 at 10:00 ----------

 

I asked for facts, I got "it's obvious, your words are the evidence"...

How does it feel? Indifferent, to be honest. It's just empty words to me and as I said before, I'm not interested in this kind of discussion.

 

You're here posting in the discussion, so you're clearly interested.