Gender Fluid etc, Opinions?

[Michael_W 11]

I kind of have to agree, but not for the reasons you all probably think.

 

In my opinion, kids should not be given toys or clothes that are gender stereotypical so the parents are doing the right thing there. I think they are making too much of a big thing, too much fuss about everything. They should do it quietly so the kid doesn't realise what is going on. Parents should gently guide their kids rather than force their views on them.

 

I can remember my parents trying to dress me as a kid. I wouldn't let them do it or pick my clothes. They did used to buy my clothes but if there was something I didn't like I wouldn't wear it. If I chose clashing items that were unsuited to the occasion they would gently guide me. Isn't this what all parents should do? I'm not saying my parents were perfect. I just feel people are making too much of a big thing about developing a style and identity, something we all have to do irrespective of our gender.

 

There are certain norms in life that as a society we are expected to and generally adhere to, people don't get to choose to do what they please all the time, regardless of how much freedom of choice we have today. We are expected to go to school, wear a uniform, get an education, go to work to allow us to home, feed and clothe ourselves and our families, if choices allow the fabrics of society to break down we are on a very slippery slope.

How fortunate that you could pick and choose what you wanted to wear even if your parents had bought your clothes, presumably at an early age you were given those choices but not everybody is, I remember an era when we wore hand me downs, thank god I never had an older sister

[Chez2 10]

There are certain norms in life that as a society we are expected to and generally adhere to, people don't get to choose to do what they please all the time, regardless of how much freedom of choice we have today. We are expected to go to school, wear a uniform, get an education, go to work to allow us to home, feed and clothe ourselves and our families, if choices allow the fabrics of society to break down we are on a very slippery slope.

How fortunate that you could pick and choose what you wanted to wear even if your parents had bought your clothes, presumably at an early age you were given those choices but not everybody is, I remember an era when we wore hand me downs, thank god I never had an older sister

 

I don't see what you are driving at. I don't see how your comments are relevant to my post or gender fluidity. They certainly aren't a reply / response to the points I raised. I never mentioned being a rebel as you seem to make out. I merely pointed out that I had my own mind at a young age.

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm of the age where clothes were home made and purchased frugally and seasonally ie a small set at winter, Whitsuntide and a few bits at the height of summer. Only as a teenager in the 1970s did clothes buying become a more everyday occurrence. Irrespective of that, if I didn't want to wear something, I wouldn't.

 

The only bit I would find a little controversial is a boy wanting to wear a dress or skirt as an everyday outfit. I would fear that would leave them open to bullying. I know of young boys that have playing / dress up clothes that are designed for females. Nobody I know has a problem with that. Why tell a young boy he can't play dress up or go to a fancy dress party as one of his favourite film characters?

[Michael_W 11]

I don't see what you are driving at. I don't see how your comments are relevant to my post or gender fluidity. They certainly aren't a reply / response to the points I raised. I never mentioned being a rebel as you seem to make out. I merely pointed out that I had my own mind at a young age.

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm of the age where clothes were home made and purchased frugally and seasonally ie a small set at winter, Whitsuntide and a few bits at the height of summer. Only as a teenager in the 1970s did clothes buying become a more everyday occurrence. Irrespective of that, if I didn't want to wear something, I wouldn't.

 

The only bit I would find a little controversial is a boy wanting to wear a dress or skirt as an everyday outfit. I would fear that would leave them open to bullying. I know of young boys that have playing / dress up clothes that are designed for females. Nobody I know has a problem with that. Why tell a young boy he can't play dress up or go to a fancy dress party as one of his favourite film characters?

 

I am driving at choices, we don't all get absolute freedom of choice, as a parent I never considered buying my son 'girls stuff' nor my daughter 'boys stuff' because for me and my wife that was the norm, I do however think we have some amongst us who feel the need to change the norm, that's their choice but they have no right to expect everyone to be fully agreeable to it.

 

As a side note, yesterday I saw what I assumed was a guy cycling through town with a glittery hat, flowery dress and patterned leggings, all very attention grabbing and of course completely his choice, no problems personally with that, but I wonder if someone had commented negatively on his attire looking a bit bizarre, he would have afforded them the choice of having a negative opinion of his appearance ?

Edited October 10, 2017 by Michael_W

[Chez2 10]

I am driving at choices, we don't all get absolute freedom of choice, as a parent I never considered buying my son 'girls stuff' nor my daughter 'boys stuff' because for me and my wife that was the norm, I do however think we have some amongst us who feel the need to change the norm, that's their choice but they have no right to expect everyone to be fully agreeable to it.

 

It depends on how you define "boys stuff" and "girls stuff". From what you say, it sounds like you are forcing your outdated ideas on your kids and not giving them equal choices. I bet you have male and female chores/roles in your house too, right? What about the career aspirations of your kids? How do you influence those?

[Michael_W 11]

It depends on how you define "boys stuff" and "girls stuff". From what you say, it sounds like you are forcing your outdated ideas on your kids and not giving them equal choices. I bet you have male and female chores/roles in your house too, right? What about the career aspirations of your kids? How do you influence those?

 

My kids are grown up now chez, one is a firefighter one is a nurse, however I 'forced' nothing on them that was not the norm for me and the wife at the time, and they seem to have grown up contented with our parenting choices.

With regards to chores in the house, I have always paid the mortgage and the bills, she has always cleaned the lav

Edited October 10, 2017 by Michael_W

[Guest makapaka]

It depends on how you define "boys stuff" and "girls stuff". From what you say, it sounds like you are forcing your outdated ideas on your kids and not giving them equal choices. I bet you have male and female chores/roles in your house too, right? What about the career aspirations of your kids? How do you influence those?

 

I think its really insulting to say someone is/was forcing outdated ideas on kids and not giving them equal choices - what gives you the right to say that about someone you don't know and what are you saying they are depriving them of?

[Chez2 10]

I think its really insulting to say someone is/was forcing outdated ideas on kids and not giving them equal choices - what gives you the right to say that about someone you don't know and what are you saying they are depriving them of?

 

I don't need to know them personally, The person I was having the discussion with, Michael_W told me if you read our conversation in the posts. He said boys has boys stuff, girls had girls stuff. That's in itself tells you what the kids were and were not having.

 

Michael isn't getting upset, neither am I. We are having a rational, adult discussion. Treating people according to their gender is still different to one person being gender fluid, that does have me confused. To my mind, that's not having an identify, a sense of self. How can someone not have a sense of 'self', not have an idea of their own image and identity, how can this change daily? I don't see why gender has to be at the forefront of someones mind all the time. I can see why it might be if you feel you feel your body, your gender / sex doesn't match .

[Guest makapaka]

I don't see what you are driving at. I don't see how your comments are relevant to my post or gender fluidity. They certainly aren't a reply / response to the points I raised. I never mentioned being a rebel as you seem to make out. I merely pointed out that I had my own mind at a young age.

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm of the age where clothes were home made and purchased frugally and seasonally ie a small set at winter, Whitsuntide and a few bits at the height of summer. Only as a teenager in the 1970s did clothes buying become a more everyday occurrence. Irrespective of that, if I didn't want to wear something, I wouldn't.

 

The only bit I would find a little controversial is a boy wanting to wear a dress or skirt as an everyday outfit. I would fear that would leave them open to bullying. I know of young boys that have playing / dress up clothes that are designed for females. Nobody I know has a problem with that. Why tell a young boy he can't play dress up or go to a fancy dress party as one of his favourite film characters?

 

I don't need to know them personally, The person I was having the discussion with, Michael_W told me if you read our conversation in the posts. He said boys has boys stuff, girls had girls stuff. That's in itself tells you what the kids were and were not having.

 

Michael isn't getting upset, neither am I. We are having a rational, adult discussion. Treating people according to their gender is still different to one person being gender fluid, that does have me confused. To my mind, that's not having an identify, a sense of self. How can someone not have a sense of 'self', not have an idea of their own image and identity, how can this change daily? I don't see why gender has to be at the forefront of someones mind all the time. I can see why it might be if you feel you feel your body, your gender / sex doesn't match .

 

It’s not a private forum though is it so your opinions can be challenged.

 

The specific point I was making was that you believe your seemingly more modern views on parenting are better than someone else’s which are outdated. And that their children have been deprived as a consequence.

 

Regardless of whether Michael is upset or not - I think that’s quite an insulting thing to say that’s all.

[Car Boot 10]

Being a woman is a combination of sex (biology), gender and life experience.

 

A man cannot know what it is to be a woman, because he has not lived all three of these things.

 

A transgender man, living as a woman, has adopted the traits and outward appearance of being a woman. But is lacking the life experiences that shape a real woman's life. The same for a transgender woman living as a man.

 

Transgender is a parody. True feminists understand this.

[Chez2 10]

It’s not a private forum though is it so your opinions can be challenged.

 

The specific point I was making was that you believe your seemingly more modern views on parenting are better than someone else’s which are outdated. And that their children have been deprived as a consequence.

 

Regardless of whether Michael is upset or not - I think that’s quite an insulting thing to say that’s all.

 

You were not challenging me, you were attacking my right to voice an opinion or observation. I'm not going to argue with you, you are taking this off topic by arguing about your misunderstanding what we have all written. I don't call my statement about parenting in the 1960s and 70s "modern" by todays standard. This is the time period I'm talking about if you read my posts.

[Car Boot 10]

'Gender Fluid' may have began as a term to describe gender confused individuals.

 

But the capitalists in big business have now latched on to it as a means to sell more of their products, to 'socially aware' affluent middle class parents who don't wish to push so called 'gender stereotypes' upon little Tarquin or little Cressida.

[Guest makapaka]

You were not challenging me, you were attacking my right to voice an opinion or observation. I'm not going to argue with you, you are taking this off topic by arguing about your misunderstanding what we have all written. I don't call my statement about parenting in the 1960s and 70s "modern" by todays standard. This is the time period I'm talking about if you read my posts.

 

I’m not taking anything off topic at all nor am i attacking your rights etc.

 

You said “sounds like you are forcing outdated ideas on your kids and not giving them equal choices” to the other poster.

 

You didn’t know the age of the children because the poster only told you afterwards that they were grown up.

 

As I said before - calling someone’s parenting skills outdated and preventing choice is a bit insulting without any knowledge of the circumstances.