Public sector pay

[Becky B 31]

I have not seen a single response on this thread where someone has argued that the public sector is paid too much. The argument is the public sector is paid more than the private sector and the ONS and IFS back this up.

 

There are many more manual jobs in the private sector where you are not allowed to retire early. Your argument that who would be a firefighter in their 60's is easily countered with who would be a bricklayer, North sea fisherman, lumberjack, oilrig worker, miner, farmer in their 60's? Many do, but there are also other roles people can play in the public sector that are not as physically demanding too. Early retirement is also not exclusive to the physical jobs either.

 

1)The public sector is paid on average a higher hourly rate than the private sector.

2)The public sector has by far better pension provision for its workers.

3)The public sector in addition offers early retirement to a large number of employees.

 

My numbers:

1) Do the ONS and IFS say the pay is better, or pay and other benefits?

2) It might have done once, it has undergone several changes over recent years. I don't know details of private sector pensions but I know public sector isn't the jewel it used to be.

3) Again, it used to. Still does for some people who have a contract dating from before a certain time and have special status, but as those people retire it's becoming fewer. For everyone else, nope!

 

I agree with you that the argument for retiring early because the job is physically demanding is meaningless, when comparing public and private sector jobs.

[I1L2T3 10]

:hihi: It's in the newspaper so it must be true ! :hihi:

 

Got any evidence it isn't true?

[El Cid 221]

Of course

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/public-sector-pay-cap-lift-pay-tax-theresa-may-1-per-cent-nurse-paramedic-police-a7843006.html%3Famp

 

That may well be true; but many people have been brain washed against council workers.

How many people would vote to give council workers a pay rise

[Hairyloon 10]

Strangely double posted. See below.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Hairyloon

[Andy1976 10]

Firefighters have nothing but my admiration, I'm not really concerned if they had little to do in the weeks before the disaster. These people are running into burning buildings as others are running out of them. Haven't you ever used that tactic what with you being a lawyer?

 

Those golf courses can be nasty on a Friday afternoon:cool:

 

Cheeky sod.

 

It's Thursday morning this week!!

[Hairyloon 10]

That may well be true; but many people have been brain washed against council workers.

 

Clever the way they brainwash you into thinking you can see them in their vans on a tea-break most of the day...

 

How many council workers would vote for an increase in pay that was conditionally tied to a productivity element?

[Michael_W 11]

I didn't work set hours. As I'm sure that you know, you just get on with stuff and finish when the job is done.

 

My working week varied throughout the year, I'd guess that it averaged out at about 55 hours a week.

 

---------- Post added 18-07-2017 at 19:06 ----------

 

 

I loved the job.

 

I just hated all of the idiots giving me irrelevant stuff to do in addition to the important stuff.

 

No disrespect Sibon, but the pay rewards for teaching are not and have never been that bad, the holiday's are not that bad either, your extra workloads and the irrelevant stuff that now goes with the role is not exclusive to that type of work, nor is it exclusive to the public sector, it is happening in almost every workplace up and down the country.

Everywhere people work it is more and more target driven, employers blinded by excel spreadsheets, graph, chart and number crunched data ..... to highlight what 'they' see as inefficiencies and squeeze more out of people, you seem to have been in a fortunate enough position to get away from that many others are not.

[Guest sibon]

No disrespect Sibon, but the pay rewards for teaching are not and have never been that bad, the holiday's are not that bad either, your extra workloads and the irrelevant stuff that now goes with the role is not exclusive to that type of work, nor is it exclusive to the public sector, it is happening in almost every workplace up and down the country.

Everywhere people work it is more and more target driven, employers blinded by excel spreadsheets, graph, chart and number crunched data ..... to highlight what 'they' see as inefficiencies and squeeze more out of people, you seem to have been in a fortunate enough position to get away from that many others are not.

 

That's fine Michael.

 

Let's just say that I'm doing fine without all of the nonsense. Earning plenty and having a good time.

 

As I said earlier, you will all get the public services you deserve in the long run. I'm one of 10 000 teachers to quit in the last 5 years. I had 30 years experience of teaching and managing in a shortage subject. I'm not that easy, or cheap to replace.

[El Cid 221]

Clever the way they brainwash you into thinking you can see them in their vans on a tea-break most of the day...

 

How many council workers would vote for an increase in pay that was conditionally tied to a productivity element?

 

And not in the cafe like most 'on the road' workers?

 

I would vote for a cut in sick pay, from 100% to 80%-90%

[L00b 441]

I would vote for a cut in sick pay, from 100% to 80%-90%

Are you feeling a bit entitled? [friendly nudge ]

 

The vast majority get SSP in the private sector. That's £89.35 per week.

[El Cid 221]

How many council workers would vote for an increase in pay that was conditionally tied to a productivity element?

 

I work for a council, and it surprises my how many of my fellow workers feel hard done by. I dont think we are over-paid, I was getting £7.18 and we had a regrading and got over £1 per hour extra. Perhaps I was underpaid and now we are ok.

After my recent accident and time off, I tell them how I may do more hours to help out, and they are dismissive of my attitude.

 

---------- Post added 19-07-2017 at 11:06 ----------

 

Are you feeling a bit entitled? [friendly nudge ]

 

The vast majority get SSP in the private sector. That's £89.35 per week.

 

I have only ever work for 3 employers, they all paid sick pay; I remember working for Office International and a colleague took 2 weeks every year, with a bad back. That was about 15 years ago.

 

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Benefits/Lyreco-UK-Sick-Pay-UK-BNFT72_E37723_N2.htm

 

---------- Post added 19-07-2017 at 11:10 ----------

 

A new benchmark report from EEF on sick pay entitlement points to the majority of companies providing Occupational Sick Pay schemes for their employees, with only 13% of companies purely providing Statutory Sick Pay.

 

Perhaps you are in the wrong job, if you dont get sick pay

 

https://www.eef.org.uk/business-support/news-blogs-and-publications/blogs/2017/jun/occupational-sick-pay-a-common-benefit-for-employees

Edited July 19, 2017 by El Cid

[L00b 441]

A new benchmark report from EEF on sick pay entitlement points to the majority of companies providing Occupational Sick Pay schemes for their employees, with only 13% of companies purely providing Statutory Sick Pay.

 

https://www.eef.org.uk/business-support/news-blogs-and-publications/blogs/2017/jun/occupational-sick-pay-a-common-benefit-for-employees

From your link:

Seventy-nine percent of companies give Occupational Sick Pay (OSP) to some or all of their manual workers and even more (87%) give to some or all of their non-manual employees.

The level of entitlement to OSP tends to increase with length of service, however 23% of companies provide OSP to their manual employees from the start of their employment, rising to 26% for non-manual employees.

Meaning that your mileage about OSP varies greatly within that '87%' balance, according to whether you are manual or not, and a job starter or not:

 

according to the first quote, 21% (at least) of companies do not give OSP to their manual workers and 13% (at least) of companies do not give OSP to their non-manual workers; and

 

according to the second quote, 77% of companies do not give OSP to their manual workers from the start of their employment, and 74% of companies do not give OSP to their non- manual workers from the start of their employment.

 

From your link still:

Both manual and non-manual employees get an overall average of 9 weeks OSP at the start of employment.

Which can only be computed from the reduced pool represented by the 23% and 26% of companies which do give OSP from the start of employment (second quote comment above).

Perhaps you are in the wrong job, if you dont get sick pay

Careful with the jibes, I couldbe minded to retort something about understanding stats

 

Our business pays 100% pay, from the start of employment. At my discretion, as a director