The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[L00b 441]

"I think it wouldn't be fair to the people of Scotland because they're being asked to make a crucial decision without all the necessary information - without knowing what the future partnership would be, or what the alternative of an independent Scotland would look like."

 

Theresa May, 16 March 2017

 

If you heard a conflagration and/or you're hearing any emergency vehicle sirens, they're on their way here. My irony meter just exploded. Again. Left a smoking crater this time

[I1L2T3 10]

Brexit is the will of the people by definition of Brexit winning the referendum. However, nearly half didn't vote in favour. So she is touring to build consensus for Brexit. So it becomes the will of all the people. That's how I read it.

 

I fail to see how you could not conjure up that interpretation by yourself.

 

The "will of the people" is not represented by an affirmative vote of less than 40% of the electorate. How can it possibly be especially when you consider the democratic deficit on both sides of the referendum campaign?

 

That is the fundamental problem. The result was not decisive.

[apelike 10]

The "will of the people" is not represented by an affirmative vote of less than 40% of the electorate.

 

Until we have a system of compulsory voting with a qualified majority vote then the will of the people at the moment is based on those that actually voted, and in this case a majority of 51.8% voted leave. Although it was a slim majority it did reflect the will of the people who bothered to vote, and in that sense it was decisive.

[Hairyloon 10]

The "will of the people" is not represented by an affirmative vote of less than 40% of the electorate...

Sorry, no. That is not how our voting system works. There are plenty of good arguments as to why Brexit is not the will of the people, but that is not one of them.

 

The result was not decisive

Oh, it was decisive, just not decisive on the question on the paper.

[Litotes 63]

You mean this: Electorate, "all the people in a country or area who are entitled to vote in an election." As you probably already know its not the electorate that counts in an election but the number of votes cast.

 

There is also no information in Litotes post to back this up: "Only 37% of the electorate backed what she is doing." and because it is the electorate he is talking about there is also no information to back this up either: "From my personal observations - that 37% is declining - many leavers I know regret the way they voted." as the electorate will not decline unless something actually strips their voting rights. from them and stops them from voting. That's why his premise is wrong and so is his figures quoted.

 

 

 

Why ? can you elaborate?

 

I beg your pardon - only 37% of those people entitled to vote in the UK actually voted to leave. - how can you dispute that?

 

I said the "electorate" not "those who voted" - perhaps english isn't your first language?

 

Of the 37% who voted to leave, I know of many who regret their decision to vote that way - I know of no-one who voted remain ho has been convinced that they voted wrongly.

 

And that is why YOUR premise is wrong and why my figures are correct.

 

---------- Post added 16-03-2017 at 19:29 ----------

 

This was my interpretation. Currently >55% of the people are with her. She'd like more. Sounds a rather positive approach to me and I don't really like May.

 

55% of those polled - and we know how trustworthy polls are...

 

---------- Post added 16-03-2017 at 19:30 ----------

 

It's all explained here in this news article

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/may-to-tour-uk-telling-everyone-to-shut-the-fk-up-20170315124160

 

Before you all start, this publication is known for far superior reporting accuracy than either the Daily Mail or Fox News.

 

Known by whom?

 

This vote by the people you trust says 60% would want to remain...

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-another-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote/

 

 

I guess that that margin is emphatic (and yes, it was only Scotland - but we don't know what "Great Britain" means in terms of the other polls).

Edited March 16, 2017 by Litotes

[Hairyloon 10]

Known by whom?

By most people, I think. But it is not as if the bar is very high.

[unbeliever 10]

The "will of the people" is not represented by an affirmative vote of less than 40% of the electorate. How can it possibly be especially when you consider the democratic deficit on both sides of the referendum campaign?

 

That is the fundamental problem. The result was not decisive.

 

Yes it is. Abstentions are excluded. Decisions are made by those who show up.

[apelike 10]

I beg your pardon - only 37% of those people entitled to vote in the UK actually voted to leave. - how can you dispute that?

 

But what you fail to point out is that only 34.7% voted remain so its not really relevant as it still means leave got the greater vote, or don't you understand that. The correct way of reporting the results are by virtue of those who voted and not the just the electorate.

 

 

I said the "electorate" not "those who voted" - perhaps english isn't your first language?

 

See above..

 

Of the 37% who voted to leave,

 

Err.. You mean 37% of the electorate who voted to leave don't you?

 

I know of many who regret their decision to vote that way - I know of no-one who voted remain ho has been convinced that they voted wrongly.

 

But I can also give anecdotes on how the people I know who voted leave have not changed their mind, but that does alter the situation at all does it?

Edited March 16, 2017 by apelike

[Litotes 63]

But what you fail to point out is that only 34.7% voted remain so its not really relevant as it still means leave got the greater vote, or don't you understand that. The correct way of reporting the results are by virtue of those who voted and not the just the electorate.

 

See above..

 

Err.. You mean 37% of the electorate who voted to leave don't you?

 

But I can also give anecdotes on how the people I know who voted leave have not changed their mind, but that does alter the situation at all does it?

 

Your comments are all true but irrelevant to the context in which my response was given.

[Guest]

What's next for EU citizens in UK and UK citizens in EU?

It will be subject to negotiations after article 50?

[unbeliever 10]

What's next for EU citizens in UK and UK citizens in EU?

It will be subject to negotiations after article 50?

 

It may be settled next month. Official article 50 negotiations will start very soon.

[Jacktari 10]

It may be settled next month. Official article 50 negotiations will start very soon.

 

Lots of things may be stated and laid down.

 

But it will never be settled, ever, or at least not for a long time.