What and Who is English

[Greybeard]

They were completely German by blood actually, but hey!...

 

StarSparkle

 

The last English King of England died of an arrow in his eye in 1066

 

Since then they've been francophone Norwegians, or Welsh, Scots, Dutch Spaniards. Germans - as motley a crew as you could wish for.

[upinwath]

............and so on

 

I'm English. White as the driven snow and born in Allah's own Yorkshire to two White English parents.

 

Until you look closer and find I'm a Muslim convert. Does that make me less English?

I left the country. How about that?

Turns out that my family has a Jewish branch and that out branch were Jewish until the early 1900s. Does that naff things up yet?

 

So if I kept the cake hole shut I could join the BNP or if they find me they could beat me up for being a **** lover.

 

Isn't racism foolish?

[Ms Macbeth]

Mod note: Please keep the chat for the chatroom/pms, and no more innuendo please, remember this is a family forum?

[Halibut]

I would define someone as English if they were descended from one of the West European "tribes" that settled in England up to, and including the Norman Invasion in 1066.

 

These "tribes" are defined by Stephen Oppenheimer in his authoritative book "The Origins of the British". They would include Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Norse and Normans - a simple DNA test would reveal our ancestral origins.

 

Under your definition Nodens anyone who isn't white can't be English - how bizarre, what's all that about then?

[H da fella]

Oh wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if everyone took people on face value, regardless of race, colour or creed ? but thats never going to happen as like and like are allways going to have a different opinion on life religion and social morals, hence; Get on with your life whatever country you are from, you are only here for the best part of a century and thats not a long time is it ?? Oh and stop spouting better than thou comments and religious dogma as no one is qualified to say we are the best or the one true religion or race.. we are all made of the same bag of watter and bones, its the brain that we were blessed with that causes all the controversy, nothing else Turn yer brain off and look around you, look past the religious/racial issues and the world suddenly becomes a beautiful place

[Ms Macbeth]

A good friend was born and brought up in Sheffield and has lived here all her life, with several generations of her mother's family being born and brought up here too. However, her father was from a different continent. Most of her culture comes from her family, friends and life here in Sheffield yet the first thing some people think about and judge her by is her skin colour. Some would even deny she can be English, based solely on pigment...

[Halibut]

A good friend was born and brought up in Sheffield and has lived here all her life, with several generations of her mother's family being born and brought up here too. However, her father was from a different continent. Most of her culture comes from her family, friends and life here in Sheffield yet the first thing some people think about and judge her by is her skin colour. Some would even deny she can be English, based solely on pigment...

 

Indeed, Ms MacBeth. It looks as if she mightn't qualify under Nodens criteria of Englishness. I wonder if he'd clarify - perhaps a little bit of non - European blood is Ok?

[flamingjimmy]

Indeed, Ms MacBeth. It looks as if she mightn't qualify under Nodens criteria of Englishness. I wonder if he'd clarify - perhaps a little bit of non - European blood is Ok?

 

To be fair, and please correct me if i'm wrong, he didn't say 'purely' of Celtic, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Norse and Normans stock, he just said descended from, so you could be as black or brown or pink with little blue stars but as long as you've got some blood from these tribes you'd still be English, even if you didn't speak the language, had no idea what a cup of tea was and couldn't find England on a map.

 

In short, it's a crap definition of Englishness. As many many people from other countries qualify as more English as a second generation immigrant who fully embraces his community.

[angle20]

There is no state (ie passport-issuing entity) called England. Therefore, nobody can claim to be English purely on a citizenship basis.

 

That leaves an ethnic/racial criterion. The English are, in law, a national origin racial group. Consequently, only persons of long standing and very well assimilated identity could claim to be English on this basis.

[flamingjimmy]

There is no state (ie passport-issuing entity) called England. Therefore, nobody can claim to be English purely on a citizenship basis.

 

That leaves an ethnic/racial criterion. The English are, in law, a national origin racial group. Consequently, only persons of long standing and very well assimilated identity could claim to be English on this basis.

 

That definition you gave earlier didn't sound like a race to me.

 

You said that anyone who feels english and is accepted by other english to be english is english.

 

I'm english without a doubt and i accept people like tab1 as english so by you're nice 'legal' definition he and lots of other immigrants are. Thanks for clearing that up:thumbsup: