Supertram Bus link

[Andy C 86]

Stagecoach have now removed the tram link from the tram only tickets.

To show how they are using their monopoly position, the fare when Tramlink started in 2007 was £2.70; this week it is £4. This represents an increase of 48%, or 6% per year. Although very low now, inflation has averaged 2-4% during that period. This suggests that Stagecoach are using their monopoly position to make more money and the Sheffield Bus Partnership is a mechanism to charge passengers more.

 

The bus link, which is not operated by Supertram (it is operated independently by Stagecoach Yorkshire bus company), has never been included in tram only fares, with the exception of the recent promotional offers during September and October, which was for a specific advertised period.

 

A bus only Dayrider or tram only Dayrider ticket is £3.90, which matches the day ticket price that First or TM Travel charge for an operator specific day ticket.

 

A 10p premium to have both bus and tram combined is not a lot and cheaper than the day Citywide ticket that includes all buses and trams, currently £4.50.

 

To put into context, a day ticket before the bus partnership launched in 2012 travelling with First was £4.70.

[pushtotalk 10]

Stagecoach have now removed the tram link from the tram only tickets.

To show how they are using their monopoly position, the fare when Tramlink started in 2007 was £2.70; this week it is £4. This represents an increase of 48%, or 6% per year. Although very low now, inflation has averaged 2-4% during that period. This suggests that Stagecoach are using their monopoly position to make more money and the Sheffield Bus Partnership is a mechanism to charge passengers more.

 

SL services were only included in the Tram Only tickets from 25 Aug to 25 Oct to allow SL customers to benefit from the 21% off offers. The only other way that would have been possible would have been for Stagecoach bus to knock 21% off all their tickets. Given it's not their anniversary, why would they want to knock 21% off some or all of their tickets?

 

As Andy C says, Tram Only tickets on SL was just for the promotional period and now normal prices and rules have resumed.

[Guest busdriver1]

Don't believe them Andy, Stagecoach have form.

There have been allegations in the North East (Rethinking the Welfare State, Whitfield p190), Scottish coaches (Motorvator v Citylink), Sussex in 1992 (Hansard 31/10/94), Preston in 2007 (Competition Appeal Tribunal) and most famously in Darlington where they ran buses for free until the council company stopped operating.

Brian Souter, Stagecoach founder and anti Section 28 campaigner, has been an outspoken critic of attempts to re-regulate bus services in the North East, stating he would rather "drink poison" than accept a quality contract (Guardian 21/10/14).

Stagecoach could have reduced the price of their bus and tram tickets instead of merely on Tram branded services, if this was purely a positive promotion.

 

You are just skimming the surface with the various wrongdoings of Stagecoach with this list. They hold the record for any British company with referrals to the OFT at something like 32 with the second on the list at 6.

They really are a national disgrace.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 02:46 ----------

 

The bus link, which is not operated by Supertram (it is operated independently by Stagecoach Yorkshire bus company),

The service was initially paid for by supertram and operated under contract by stagecoach yorkshire.

[mrmw 10]

Stagecoach have now removed the tram link from the tram only tickets.

To show how they are using their monopoly position, the fare when Tramlink started in 2007 was £2.70; this week it is £4. This represents an increase of 48%, or 6% per year. Although very low now, inflation has averaged 2-4% during that period. This suggests that Stagecoach are using their monopoly position to make more money and the Sheffield Bus Partnership is a mechanism to charge passengers more.

 

In the interests of impartiality and fairness would you care to do a similar comparison on fare increases for First and other bus operators so we can then make an informed decision on this post?

[nohands 10]

The bus link, which is not operated by Supertram (it is operated independently by Stagecoach Yorkshire bus company), has never been included in tram only fares, with the exception of the recent promotional offers during September and October, which was for a specific advertised. Citywide ticket that includes all buses and trams, currently £4.50.

.

 

It's a fair point about the offer, but since the 58 was withdrawn people from much of Stocksbridge are forced to use the tram to get to town. Stagecoach charge a premium for this, which seems a bit unfair as it is an increased journey time, interchange anxiety and a wait in a less than inviting interchange.

 

Stagecoach claim that the Supertram control room can see where the buses are to link up the tram and bus, but I have never seen any evidence of this.

 

Stagecoach have increased their prices at over double the rate of inflation over the Last 8 years. Why?

 

---------- Post added 04-11-2015 at 12:19 ----------

 

In the interests of impartiality and fairness would you care to do a similar comparison on fare increases for First and other bus operators so we can then make an informed decision on this post?

 

I am glad to say I do not have all the data. The nearest I have found is that in 2009 First charged £4 and now it is £3.90. This followed a change in policy where they decreased their fares in 2012.

 

Perhaps a better comparison is with motoring costs. In 2007 AA rate was 42.77 per mile for a mid range diesel based on 15,000 miles per annum. The 2014 rate was 47.49p. This represents a 1.6% increase per annum. Thus Stagecoach fares are increasing at well over triple the cost of their main competitor, the car.

[Andy C 86]

It's a fair point about the offer, but since the 58 was withdrawn people from much of Stocksbridge are forced to use the tram to get to town. Stagecoach charge a premium for this, which seems a bit unfair as it is an increased journey time, interchange anxiety and a wait in a less than inviting interchange.

 

Stagecoach claim that the Supertram control room can see where the buses are to link up the tram and bus, but I have never seen any evidence of this.

 

Stagecoach have increased their prices at over double the rate of inflation over the Last 8 years. Why?

 

The 58 was withdrawn when First pulled out of Stocksbridge. Stagecoach tickets - even with the premium of including tram as well as bus- are still cheaper than First was charging 4 years ago.

 

8 years ago you will probably find the ticket prices were unsustainably and artifically low to build custom and market share in competition with First. Prices are still incredibly cheap really.

 

You can still buy bus only tickets which price match what all the other bus companies charge if you don't use the tram - Stagecoach run buses SL, 57 and 201 from Stocksbridge which connect with other Stagecoach buses. You could actually get the SL and change onto the 57 instead of the tram and pay the bus only price.

 

However - the premium for adding tram travel is £1 per week - less than 15p per day - not a fortune! The trams are more frequent than any of the Stocksbridge-Sheffield buses ever were and you could argue offer a much nicer on board environment.

 

The Supertram control room can no longer see the SL buses since Stagecoach invested in the brand new buses - the buses are independently run by Stagecoach Yorkshire and have different radio and tracker systems. Supertram's priority is running the trams on time, not waiting for delayed buses - this would have a knock on effect on other passengers, some of which are wanting to connect with trains at Meadowhall. The trams are frequent- there is simply no need to wait for the buses.

 

---------- Post added 04-11-2015 at 12:31 ----------

 

It's a fair point about the offer, but since the 58 was withdrawn people from much of Stocksbridge are forced to use the tram to get to town. Stagecoach charge a premium for this, which seems a bit unfair as it is an increased journey time, interchange anxiety and a wait in a less than inviting interchange.

 

Stagecoach claim that the Supertram control room can see where the buses are to link up the tram and bus, but I have never seen any evidence of this.

 

Stagecoach have increased their prices at over double the rate of inflation over the Last 8 years. Why?

 

---------- Post added 04-11-2015 at 12:19 ----------

 

 

I am glad to say I do not have all the data. The nearest I have found is that in 2009 First charged £4 and now it is £3.90. This followed a change in policy where they decreased their fares in 2012.

 

Perhaps a better comparison is with motoring costs. In 2007 AA rate was 42.77 per mile for a mid range diesel based on 15,000 miles per annum. The 2014 rate was 47.49p. This represents a 1.6% increase per annum. Thus Stagecoach fares are increasing at well over triple the cost of their main competitor, the car.

 

So, in 2009, you say First charged £4 for a bus only day ticket. Now, in 2015, Stagecoach are charging £4 for a bus and tram inclusive day ticket.

 

Doesn't sound like years of rip off increases to me.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Andy C

[nohands 10]

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So, in 2009, you say First charged £4 for a bus only day ticket. Now, in 2015, Stagecoach are charging £4 for a bus and tram inclusive day ticket.

 

Doesn't sound like years of rip off increases to me.

 

You seem to be deliberately missing the point. First received bad press for their high fares. Stagecoach came in and undercut them but has since increased their fares at an average of 6% per annum. This is much much higher than the increase in the cost of motoring.

 

Are you paid by Stagecoach to defend them? Why do they keep increasing their fares? Are they trying to encourage people into their cars?

[Andy C 86]

[/color]

 

 

 

You seem to be deliberately missing the point. First received bad press for their high fares. Stagecoach came in and undercut them but has since increased their fares at an average of 6% per annum. This is much much higher than the increase in the cost of motoring.

 

Are you paid by Stagecoach to defend them? Why do they keep increasing their fares? Are they trying to encourage people into their cars?

 

First DID have high fares before they slashed their prices to match Stagecoach in 2012.

 

Both operators ticket prices are still considered unrealistically cheap to the point that no operators are actually making any money in Sheffield and that is partly what the new bus network has been about - there is too much political pressure to keep fares cheap so operating costs have been cut instead.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Andy C

[nohands 10]

First DID have high fares before they slashed their prices to match Stagecoach in 2012.

 

Both operators ticket prices are still considered unrealistically cheap to the point that no operators are actually making any money in Sheffield and that is partly what the new bus network has been about - there is too much political pressure to keep fares cheap so operating costs have been cut instead.

 

Thanks for your reply Andy. I don't think 6% per annum is cheap, but I appreciate you taking the time to put the counter argument.

[Andy C 86]

Thanks for your reply Andy. I don't think 6% per annum is cheap, but I appreciate you taking the time to put the counter argument.

 

If you just take that single mathematic statistic in isolation - yes you are right.

 

My points are twofold - one it is unfair to conclude that Stagecoach is taking advantage of being the sole operator and ripping you off given their fares are still cheaper than the competition (First) used to charge and two the base price you are comparing with was basically a special deal introduced to launch a new service and win custom.

[Justin Smith 10]

I think it`s very important to publicise the fact that the Supertram Link bus isn`t really what it says on the can. In all the advertising blurb they say, certainly imply, that the bus is an extension of the tram, but it isn`t.

 

As far as I can tell from the timetables from 8.00PM (20.00) the Supertram Link busses are only every half an hour, thus, if you were unlucky you would have to wait nearly 30 minutes for the "Link" !

 

Departures from Middlewood Rd P&R

 

SL1 : 20.30 / 21.35 / 22.35 / 23.35

SL1a : 20.05 / 21.05 / 22.05 / 23.05

 

Even worse, the last trams get into Middlewood P&R at 23.43 & 00.05. THUS THERE IS NO BUS TO MEET THOSE TRAMS. If you haven't got the money for a taxi (and a phone to get hold of one) you`ll be walking home, dodgy for anyone but particularly for women. I think this should be publicised as it could (in fact does) catch people out.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Justin Smith
thus there is no bus to meet those

[Hook 10]

I think it`s very important to publicise the fact that the Supertram Link bus isn`t really what it says on the can. In all the advertising blurb they say, certainly imply, that the bus is an extension of the tram, but it isn`t.

 

As far as I can tell from the timetables from 8.00PM (20.00) the Supertram Link busses are only every half an hour, thus, if you were unlucky you would have to wait nearly 30 minutes for the "Link" !

 

Departures from Middlewood Rd P&R

 

SL1 : 20.30 / 21.35 / 22.35 / 23.35

SL1a : 20.05 / 21.05 / 22.05 / 23.05

 

Even worse, the last trams get into Middlewood P&R at 23.43 & 00.05. THUS THERE IS NO BUS TO MEET THOSE TRAMS. If you haven't got the money for a taxi (and a phone to get hold of one) you`ll be walking home, dodgy for anyone but particularly for women. I think this should be publicised as it could (in fact does) catch people out.

 

Can you please explain where either Stagecoach Yorkshire or Supertram claim there is always a bus to meet a tram? I don't know about you but when travelling I check timetables before I set off to make sure I'm not going to be stranded. If I'm going to be travelling late at night I'm especially careful to make sure I don't miss the last bus before I make any plans.

 

I'm not sure why we seem to live in a society now where everything needs explaining to people. We have a responsibility to look after ourselves, if we don't check the times of the last bus and miss it then it's our problem. It isn't the bus companies responsibility.

 

Its the same as people who complain about the tram not waiting for them. The tram runs to a timetable and if you miss it then you should have been at the stop on time. People stand there moaning when there's often another tram less than ten minutes away. Take responsibility for yourself.