NHS should prescribe the unemployed money and double dole to pregnant

[Leah-Lacie]

Isn't the total UK welfare bill about £200b?

That's out of a budget of about £750b?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/330717/PESA_2014_-_print.pdf (page 18)

 

Haven't looked at your link, but from what I remember reading before, the bulk of welfare goes to people who DO work, in payments such as tax credits, rather than to the long term unemployed.

[unbeliever]

Haven't looked at your link, but from what I remember reading before, the bulk of welfare goes to people who DO work, in payments such as tax credits, rather than to the long term unemployed.

 

In the interests of honesty, I should point out that as I understand it, just under half of the ~£200b is state pension so let's exclude that. Still ~£100b out of a total of £750b is a lot.

 

At the moment, if you have a child you get the following:

Extra housing benefit

Higher priority for social housing

Child benefit

Child tax credits

 

That can make a big difference to your quality of life if you're long term unemployed.

 

I don't honestly know what to do about this. I'm not going to endorse any plan which leaves children in genuine poverty whether their parents are feckless or not.

But I can't see that offering even more money for having kids is a good idea.

 

P.S. The figure given for total tax credits in the link I supplied is around £30b, some of which goes to those in low paying work.

For that reason, I haven't included it in the total welfare spend.

Edited June 25, 2015 by unbeliever

[Anna B]

Isn't the total UK welfare bill about £200b?

That's out of a budget of about £750b?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/330717/PESA_2014_-_print.pdf (page 18)

 

'Welfare' now includes old age pensions, which it never used to be included in this catagory, and this is by far the largest portion of spending. It makes the welfare bill look like it's ballooned horrifically, (which is probably how the Tories wanted it to look for their propaganda purposes.)

 

Pensions are not a 'benefit' as they have been contributed to by the recipient usually over many years.

[truman]

'Welfare' now includes old age pensions, which it never used to be included in this catagory, and this is by far the largest portion of spending. It makes the welfare bill look like it's ballooned horrifically, (which is probably how the Tories wanted it to look for their propaganda purposes.)

 

Pensions are not a 'benefit' as they have been contributed to by the recipient usually over many years.

 

If I were to be out of work now then would you class my JSA as a benefit..after all I've been paying tax/NI for 40 years?

[Cyclone]

In the interests of honesty, I should point out that as I understand it, just under half of the ~£200b is state pension so let's exclude that. Still ~£100b out of a total of £750b is a lot.

 

At the moment, if you have a child you get the following:

Extra housing benefit

Higher priority for social housing

Child benefit

Child tax credits

 

That can make a big difference to your quality of life if you're long term unemployed.

I seriously doubt that the extra benefit is in excess of the cost of raising a child.

 

I don't honestly know what to do about this. I'm not going to endorse any plan which leaves children in genuine poverty whether their parents are feckless or not.

But I can't see that offering even more money for having kids is a good idea.

I agree with that though.

 

I was more interested in the idea that it's worth spending £1.00 now to save £2.00 for the NHS in the future.

 

But, that saving would be need to be proven, it needs to be evidence lead policy, not guessing lead policy.

[Anna B]

If I were to be out of work now then would you class my JSA as a benefit..after all I've been paying tax/NI for 40 years?

 

This is what people forget. Most people receiving JSA have paid into the system.

 

As for 'benefit,' I was quoting from an official definition I read somewhere. I'm looking for it, but can't remember where I read it.

[psynuk]

If they stopped having kids they couldnt afford and actually got a job and paid tax like the rest of us there wouldnt be a problem.

 

I like that. It's like all the little bits of life's conditioning rolled up into a neat little package.

Whilst ignoring the hundreds of years of reasons why the problems exist.

[unbeliever]

'Welfare' now includes old age pensions, which it never used to be included in this catagory, and this is by far the largest portion of spending. It makes the welfare bill look like it's ballooned horrifically, (which is probably how the Tories wanted it to look for their propaganda purposes.)

 

Pensions are not a 'benefit' as they have been contributed to by the recipient usually over many years.

 

I did make that point in my last post. You're broadly right, but you're a little behind.

 

http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/wordpress/docs/Welfare_trends_report_2014_dn2B.pdf page 55

 

To summarise:

Personal tax credits: £27b (also goes to the employed on low incomes, text of report suggests over half goes to the households doing a total of under 16 hours a week of work)

Child benefit: £11.7b (goes to most people with kids, not just the unemployed)

JSA: £3.4b

The housing benefit and bill for the under 16 hours criteria is £3b.

You may not want to count this, but the council tax payout for those same households is about the same again.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't like the idea of giving them even more.

Edited June 25, 2015 by unbeliever

[Cyclone]

I did make that point in my last post. You're broadly right, but you're a little behind.

 

http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/wordpress/docs/Welfare_trends_report_2014_dn2B.pdf page 55

 

To summarise:

Personal tax credits: £27b (also goes to the employed on low incomes, text of report suggests over half goes to the households doing a total of under 16 hours a week of work)

Child benefit: £11.7b (goes to most people with kids, not just the unemployed)

JSA: £3.4b

The housing benefit and bill for the under 16 hours criteria is £40b.

You may not want to count this, but the council tax payout for those same households is about the same again.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't like the idea of giving them even more.

 

Who? It's not one single group is it. A large portion of this spend goes to people in work (as you noted).

 

If we were to give more to the unemployed, and it ultimately saved us money because (for example) less people got diabetes, then surely it would be money well spent?

[woodmally]

I like that. It's like all the little bits of life's conditioning rolled up into a neat little package.

Whilst ignoring the hundreds of years of reasons why the problems exist.

 

Hang on a minute its not been a problem for 100s of years a few decades maybe. Child benefits havent been going on for 100s of years.

 

There are many people out there making this decision all the time. I cannot afford another child. How can I pay for one?