What should a British Muslim do?

[unbeliever 10]

No one was arguing that those bits of the bible don't exist, but a couple of members have argued that killing people is unislamic. Plain talker posted a sentence which they claimed was in the Koran, I looked at the verse quoted and it says something different in the online copies I have seen. That verse and the next few verses would give the Tunisian gun man the justification to do what he did.

 

I understand.

But it is often said that killing is unjewish or unchristian.

It may be fair to say that killing is unislamic if the overall message of the Quran is against it.

[eckby 10]

Apologies, I know you're batting for the right side. It's a nuanced problem that we all share, hence it can sometimes seem that we have differences of opinion when we don't.

 

I like your quote from that thread; "There's a darker pattern to this that they want to keep listening to these people". That's very apt. It was also nice to see my old boss posting there.

 

It irritates me that people conflate blame with responsibility, and I absolutely think that the Muslim community shares more of the burden of responsibility for changing the emphasis in the way their religion is taught.

 

Example: A few years ago I was listening to Radio Ramadhan Sheffield and there was a kids section, where they got three kids to read their favourite passages from the Koran. I don't know if the presenter knew what they were going to read, but each of them read rather unpleasant passages about what was going to happen to unbelievers. I wish I had recorded it because I think it was an important sign of what is happening in the minds of very young Muslims.

 

What's my long-term view? Well I'm not too optimistic. My mum and dad fled Egypt because of Islamic intolerance, and since then my dad has only seen it get worse. I too watched the BBC4 programme last night and wept.

 

The problem is linked to identity politics. The fact that Muslims are encouraged to share more empathy with their Muslims "brothers" and "sisters" in far away places than their non-Muslim neighbour next door. The grievance narrative that is widely held has been cast by the extremists who want to divide.

 

Solutions, well I think there are many but because of our willingness to tolerate intolerance (from the apologists as you call them) since Rushdie we have allowed the Salafist elephant into the room and I'm afraid the solution will end up being force. If it is then it needs to be united force.

 

Fear is one of the ways in which to convince young people to follow the path of God.

[Zamo 10]

They should only apologize if they believe that the "terrorists" are doing a great job. If they want to join the forces of Isis etc or if they are in the line to abuse children.

Obviously, any of the above traits would mean they would not apologise for the actions.

 

Innocent Muslims should not be made to apologize for the bad ones. As I would not feel I should apologize for the rape of pre-european America, or for the atrocities that fell on the world during the height of the British Empire.

 

Forget get about apologies and think about people taking responsibility for their choices. Muslims are responsible for choosing to perpetuate a religion that has a grossly disproportionate problem with intolerant, violent extremism. They can accept it, push to change it or disassociate from it. And others will judge them accordingly.

[eckby 10]

I understand.

But it is often said that killing is unjewish or unchristian.

It may be fair to say that killing is unislamic if the overall message of the Quran is against it.

 

I think you would struggle to find any religious text which would give the overall massage that killing evil people (sinners ,non believers) is a bad thing to do, most actively encourage it.

[unbeliever 10]

I think you would struggle to find any religious text which would give the overall massage that killing evil people (sinners ,non believers) is a bad thing to do, most actively encourage it.

 

Buddhism (peace is pretty much everything)

Hinduism (no concept of heresy, very diverse, highly inclusive)

 

Death to the non-believers is very much an Abrahamic thing.

[Blaster Bate 10]

I think you would struggle to find any religious text which would give the overall massage that killing evil people (sinners ,non believers) is a bad thing to do, most actively encourage it.

Tell me one religion that executes anyone for leaving that faith, tries execute a woman for a wrong procedure at a water fountain, charges a female rape victim with adultery, demands male witnesses to a rape, tells a man how when and why to beat his wife, etc etc.

 

Here's a clue it isn't the hells angels.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 11:06 ----------

 

Four Muslim Males (I won't call them men) have been released on appeal over the beating, stoning, burning running over with a vehicle of a defenceless innocent muslim woman who was falsely accused of burning a copy of the Koran.

What a triumph for Islam:loopy:

[Alan Ladd 10]

Ladies and gentlemen, I have read the above with great interest. I have come to the conclusion that I have the answer.

 

Get rid of religion. Consign these fairy tales to the dustbin of history.

 

Jesus was not the son of God, why? There is no God.

 

Mohammed may have heard something, but is was not God, why? There is no god.

 

Have a pint, get laid, love your kids, love the neighbors kids. Dont go to the Mosque or the church, play football.

 

This is your life, when you die they either bury or burn you, thats it. Enjoy.

[Blaster Bate 10]

Mohammed may have heard something/QUOTE]

 

The bells, the bells.

[Jeffrey Shaw 91]

Mohammed may have heard something/QUOTE]

 

The bells, the bells.

No, moslems are not allowed whisky.

[Margarita Ma 10]

My bold=

We don't need to listen to any of your sound bites regarding what we should or shouldn't do either.

Do you think Muslims are going to abandon their religion on the suggestion of a non Muslim? Behave yourself.

 

My Daughter with five children has a saying "if you won't listen and take notice then you will have to feel. This can mean many things but overall it is a warning.

The Muslim population of the world(not just Sheffield) should listen! They should listen to the terrorist organisation calling themselves ISIS and they should listen to the leading Politicians of the world not just Al Jazeera. They should also make sure that there are Family and Community discussions where young people are involved and can contribute as well as ask questions. The result of closing yourself off from wider society is that you get a very narrow view of life. I know this as I was brought up as a Roman Catholic the religious education we had gave a very narrow view of most subjects in life. fortunately I was also taught to think.

Listen up all you people and think!

This is leading us all into a third world war and we may not survive it.

We already have more than enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world.

 

World leaders are already meeting to discuss the problem of these terrorists.

The Storming of traffic queues and the Channel Tunnel by knife wielding migrants, as they are being politely called, is actually terrorism in another form. Just how many of these people leaving Muslim countries are refugees and how many are Muslim terrorists we do not know.

 

Young Muslims are just as idealistic as young Christians and just as easily led down a rose garden path to a bed full of thorns and tears. Christians ! Remember Joan of Arc. She thought she had heard the word of God. She was a teenager. She burned as a heretic by the other side in their war.

The language of us and them my god and your god has been used throughout the ages to rally forces and make people feel under attack. History is not taught with a broad brush stroke on a large canvas giving an extensive picture of the world unless someone with a long memory extensive knowledge and the skills to depict the story is in charge of the classroom.

 

Where are the Fathers and Grandfathers the Grandmothers who lost Sons and Husbands. Why are they not talking to young people about the horrors of war: of the intolerance and persecutions of the past; and how knowledge and civilisations were destroyed by fanatics who were allowed to take power by telling people they were suffering more than their neighbour, that their problems were down to some other sect or faction; or other religion and that theirs was the only true path to what they rightly want.

 

Saying that these terrorists are not true Muslims will not work. The Idea of sacrificing yourself in death in the name of Allah has to be debunked as the way to paradise. There must be a passage somewhere in the Koran that forbids suicide just as there is in most other scripture why doesnt someone find it and use it.

Paradise can be here on Earth! We the human race have to work together and educate our children to make it so. The first lesson is respect (and love your neighbour). Anything else will result in Hell on Earth.

I don't want to have to hide my Muslim friends and neighbours in the attic and under the stairs when the backlash begins.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Margarita Ma
Added text information.

[mafya 251]

My Daughter with five children has a saying "if you won't listen and take notice then you will have to feel. This can mean many things but overall it is a warning.

The Muslim population of the world(not just Sheffield) should listen! They should listen to the terrorist organisation calling themselves ISIS and they should listen to the leading Politicians of the world not just Al Jazeera. They should also make sure that there are Family and Community discussions where young people are involved and can contribute as well as ask questions. The result of closing yourself off from wider society is that you get a very narrow view of life. I know this as I was brought up as a Roman Catholic the religious education we had gave a very narrow view of most subjects in life. fortunately I was also taught to think.

Listen up all you people and think!

This is leading us all into a third world war and we may not survive it.

We already have more than enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world.

 

World leaders are already meeting to discuss the problem of these terrorists.

The Storming of traffic queues and the Channel Tunnel by knife wielding migrants, as they are being politely called, is actually terrorism in another form. Just how many of these people leaving Muslim countries are refugees and how many are Muslim terrorists we do not know.

 

Young Muslims are just as idealistic as young Christians and just as easily led down a rose garden path to a bed full of thorns and tears. Christians ! Remember Joan of Arc. She thought she had heard the word of God. She was a teenager. She burned as a heretic by the other side in their war.

The language of us and them my god and your god has been used throughout the ages to rally forces and make people feel under attack. History is not taught with a broad brush stroke on a large canvas giving an extensive picture of the world unless someone with a long memory extensive knowledge and the skills to depict the story is in charge of the classroom.

 

Where are the Fathers and Grandfathers the Grandmothers who lost Sons and Husbands. Why are they not talking to young people about the horrors of war: of the intolerance and persecutions of the past; and how knowledge and civilisations were destroyed by fanatics who were allowed to take power by telling people they were suffering more than their neighbour, that their problems were down to some other sect or faction; or other religion and that theirs was the only true path to what they rightly want.

 

Saying that these terrorists are not true Muslims will not work. The Idea of sacrificing yourself in death in the name of Allah has to be debunked as the way to paradise. There must be a passage somewhere in the Koran that forbids suicide just as there is in most other scripture why doesnt someone find it and use it.

Paradise can be here on Earth! We the human race have to work together and educate our children to make it so. The first lesson is respect (and love your neighbour). Anything else will result in Hell on Earth.

I don't want to have to hide my Muslim friends and neighbours in the attic and under the stairs when the backlash begins.[/QUOTE]

 

My bold=

You won't have to as The backlash you refer to won't happen so don't worry yourself as I'm not worried.

In the Quraan it does say that suicide is forbidden so any suicide bombers will not be going to paradise.

Does your daughter practice that saying on her kids ie by smacking them to make them feel it if they don't listen? If she does then she needs telling that it's illegal to smack your kids.

Edited July 6, 2015 by mafya

[Flanker7 20]

I don't want to have to hide my Muslim friends and neighbours in the attic and under the stairs when the backlash begins.[/QUOTE]

 

My bold=

You won't have to as The backlash you refer to won't happen so don't worry yourself as I'm not worried.

 

In the Quraan it does say that suicide is forbidden so any suicide bombers will not be going to paradise.

 

Does your daughter practice that saying on her kids ie by smacking them to make them feel it if they don't listen? If she does then she needs telling that it's illegal to smack your kids.

 

Re: Your 3 paragraphs.

1 - Its already happened. Re:your bold at the top. - EDL and Muslims have had to run and hide from the 'other' side. Some have failed and been beaten to death, in the USA. I this country the Muslims are a minority and have more to fear, luckily so are the EDL.

2 - Thankyou. Further explanation and repetition would be good, as it is commonly believed. e.g. What is the basis for the common belief that its okay for Muslims to die by conventional means in 'defence' of their faith but not if they die by poisonous gas (Iran/Iraq war).

3 - Strawman. No-one said anything about smacking so please don't lecture them. It should be beneath you?

 

IMO - 'Margarita Ma' is right even if a little alarmist.

Are you still sticking to your original answer to me? (seems like ages ago)

Is that all you would do?

So little?

Not worried . . even a bit.