What should a British Muslim do?

[Zamo]

Zamo is a nobody, why should we do/change what he believes we should do/change?

He is a Muslim hater end of and he and his ilk can take a running jump off a cliff for all I care.

As for his constant referrals to reprisals that may befall Muslims if we don't sort our house out proves he is a right wing extremists on the opposite side to the Muslim extremists.

You are of the same ilk as Zamo so you can go take a running jump off a cliff too as I don't give a **** what you think either.

 

I don't pretend to be anything other than another forum user expressing an opinion. The OP started the thread with a question and I've given my opinion as to the answer. Why don't you counter the points instead of trying to dismiss them by labelling me a hater... it doesn't invalidate anything I say.

 

I stand by my observation that 'moderate' british Muslims are not moderate enough and that is why there is an extremism problem. Sharia Law provides a good example in that it promotes discrimination that is embraced by both 'moderate' and extremist Muslims. The 'moderates' don't believe in using force to compel compliance with the values but the values are still wrong and not moderate in thinking.

 

You are right though that if the Muslim extremist problem goes unchecked then we will see right wing non-Muslim extremism growing in response. That will mean attacks and reprisals on both sides and the social cracks we have at the moment will become canyons. I offer opinion on how muslims can deal with the extremist problem and prevent this... which is the opposite of what I'd do if I was a right wing extremist myself.

 

Take the advice or leave it. If you don't agree with my assessment then give us yours... what needs to happen to stop muslim extremism?

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 11:48 ----------

 

Yes I do. But that's nothing to do with the fact that Berberis was incorrectly implying that religious arbitration 'courts' are a new thing. They aren't. They've existed for a long time.

 

I have a dislike for most religions, including all the Arahamic ones, all of which promote discrimination and contain some rather offensive ways of looking at the world.

I won't be suggesting that they be banned though, or that people should change them to suit me, or that arbitration shouldn't be available to those who wish to use it.

Education is the key, Christianity has been on the wain in the Western world for centuries, and that seems to be down to education. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to Islam as well. It's harder to accept a sky fairie who's set down a bunch of misogynistic rules when you've been educated to think critically about the world.

 

I never suggested banning anything.

 

As for education being the solution... who's going to do the educating? Muslims don't take criticism of their religion well and don't appear interested in reform driven by western education.

[Alan Ladd]

Zamo is a nobody, why should we do/change what he believes we should do/change?

He is a Muslim hater end of and he and his ilk can take a running jump off a cliff for all I care.

As for his constant referrals to reprisals that may befall Muslims if we don't sort our house out proves he is a right wing extremists on the opposite side to the Muslim extremists.

You are of the same ilk as Zamo so you can go take a running jump off a cliff too as I don't give a **** what you think either.

 

With responses such as this you fail your beliefs. Zamo does not strike me as a person who hates anyone. Zamo illustrates the concerns that non Muslims have about your religion and your community.

 

Instead of ignoring him you should try to address the issues he raises.

[Cyclone]

That SOME non Muslims have. He certainly doesn't speak for me.

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 12:09 ----------

 

What use is an apology to anyone?

 

What British Muslims should do is leave behind the religiously infected culture that caused them to be in Britain in the first place i.e. to escape from a dysfunctionality, corrupt, unjust, undemocractic and intolerant country. The religion/culture they raise their children in means they take them to the brink of extremism because even their 'moderate' cultural/religious beliefs are pretty extreme by western standards. They live right next door to the extremist camp, share many of the same beliefs and views and as a result many of their youth take a wrong path and stray over into extremism.

 

The latest Muslim youth to blow himself up in the name of Islam in Iraq may well have been lured over the extremist line by groomers (as his family claim) but his family and community took him to the line with the gift of Islamic culture/religion they bestowed on him. This is the uncomfortable truth that everyone wants to ignore. Islamic extremism is more prevelant because it is a product of nurture not nature. Therefore, what British Muslims need to do is stop doing their religion/culture... or at the very least find a way to tone it down significantly.

 

This was your first post on the topic. Where you suggest that they should leave behind their religiously infected culture.

 

They "need" (your words) to "stop doing their religion/culture".

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 13:03 ----------

 

Interesting quote from the media today

 

The government has defined extremism as: "Vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. "

 

It looks like some posters on this thread are in danger of behaving like extremists.

[Guest]

I stand by my observation that 'moderate' british Muslims are not moderate enough and that is why there is an extremism problem. Sharia Law provides a good example in that it promotes discrimination that is embraced by both 'moderate' and extremist Muslims. The 'moderates' don't believe in using force to compel compliance with the values but the values are still wrong and not moderate in thinking.

 

Really? Can you point this out please as I have never seen anything to promote discrimination.

 

Take the advice or leave it. If you don't agree with my assessment then give us yours... what needs to happen to stop muslim extremism?

 

What about a start where Muslim lands stop being invaded and bombed?

 

I saw your other 'argument' that Muslims need to check their scripture because it is the cause of problems and extremism (in fact this is an argument quite a few non Muslims use and it is flawed).

 

Firstly, no where in the Qu'ran (but as you're an expert, perhaps you can point it out) does it state to go and kill innocents.

 

Secondly, it is not even a case of misinterpretation- why? Because the Qu'ran is clear in its legislation on Jihad and there are clear rulings around warfare.

 

Thirdly, ask yourself, what would you do if your family was bombed, then you read or heard another few hundred Palestinians died due to the foreign policy and support given to Israel, then you hear another few hundred innocent Muslim are bombed by a drone in Pakistan... do you think you need a scripture to go tell you to 'go lash out' or do you think something inside of you (as a human) will feel compelled to do something.

 

There lies your problem to what causes extremism. Ask yourself, did William Wallace need a scripture to tell him to fight against English colonialism?

 

Did the IRA need a scripture to tell them to lash out when hundreds of Catholic homes were destroyed, burned and people killed?

 

No they didn't.

 

When no one listens to the Muslims who are oppressed some will take up arms and go to extremes- it does not justify what they do, for no one should kill innocents, but these groups like IS don't look at those things...for them its an eye for an eye.

 

Besides, IS is just the creation of the mayhem of the false and manipulated invasion of Iraq.

 

Go blame your government and the USA my friend and stop pointing at Islam

[eckby]

Well we keep getting lectured to that Islamic State is not about Islam, and on this forum it has been said that "it's a bunch of crazy extremists using Islam to justify their craziness".

 

And yet when we hear a story of young men and women taking off to join Islamic State we usually hear the stories about how bright they are, what great futures they have thrown away.

 

Today we have a group of 12 medical students, including 7 Britons, taking off to join Islamic State.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/sudan-medical-students-may-have-joined-isis-says-university

 

Crazy extremists? I don't think so, just Islamic extremists.

 

Yep, the young man that just killed 39 in Tunisia was an electrical engineering students, so obvious he didn't do what he did because of lack of education.

 

Mohammad Sidique Khan was a well educated man yet still he blew people up in the 7/7 terrorist attacks.

 

More than 60pc of terrorist suspects are well educated and from comfortable backgrounds, says secret M15 file.

 

Lack of education doesn't appear to be the problem.

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 13:51 ----------

 

I saw your other 'argument' that Muslims need to check their scripture because it is the cause of problems and extremism (in fact this is an argument quite a few non Muslims use and it is flawed).

 

Firstly, no where in the Qu'ran (but as you're an expert, perhaps you can point it out) does it state to go and kill innocents.

 

 

Innocent of what? Is non believer that mocks Mohammad an innocent person according to the Koran. Is someone that doesn't dress modestly classed as an innocent person in the Koran?

[milquetoast1]

What about a start where Muslim lands stop being invaded and bombed?

 

And so it comes to this.

 

After arguing that individual Muslims are not to blame for murderous Islamists (which we all agree anyway), now it seems that a beautician sat on a sun-lounger is to blame for UK foreign policy.

 

That is not something you have decided for yourself (I hope), it is something that has been fed to you. The idea that there is a war between the "West" and Muslims is commonly held, but it's a horrible poisonous delusional lie.

 

Islamic State have been quite clear about their intentions, the clue is in their title. The Kuwaiti suicide bomber made a video using the Quran and hatred of Shiite Muslims as his justification.

 

Wahhabi armies have been attacking Iraq in order to wipe out Shiites for hundreds of years.

 

The largest terrorist attack on the "West" came before the invasion of Afghanistan, and shortly after NATO sided with Bosnia Muslims against Serbia.

 

The Caliphate, like the Reich, is a false utopia which can only be created through the mass murder and repression of all those who do not belong. There are too many people joining and supporting the idea of a Caliphate.

Edited June 30, 2015 by milquetoast1

[Zamo]

Really? Can you point this out please as I have never seen anything to promote discrimination.

 

The Law Society last year got itself it hot water for issuing a guidance note to solicitors on how to draft Sharia compliant wills. It included discriminating against women, homosexuals, non-believers, people born out of wedlock etc. Did they misinterpret?

 

What about a start where Muslim lands stop being invaded and bombed?

 

I saw your other 'argument' that Muslims need to check their scripture because it is the cause of problems and extremism (in fact this is an argument quite a few non Muslims use and it is flawed).

 

Firstly, no where in the Qu'ran (but as you're an expert, perhaps you can point it out) does it state to go and kill innocents.

 

Secondly, it is not even a case of misinterpretation- why? Because the Qu'ran is clear in its legislation on Jihad and there are clear rulings around warfare.

 

Thirdly, ask yourself, what would you do if your family was bombed, then you read or heard another few hundred Palestinians died due to the foreign policy and support given to Israel, then you hear another few hundred innocent Muslim are bombed by a drone in Pakistan... do you think you need a scripture to go tell you to 'go lash out' or do you think something inside of you (as a human) will feel compelled to do something.

 

There lies your problem to what causes extremism. Ask yourself, did William Wallace need a scripture to tell him to fight against English colonialism?

 

Did the IRA need a scripture to tell them to lash out when hundreds of Catholic homes were destroyed, burned and people killed?

 

No they didn't.

 

When no one listens to the Muslims who are oppressed some will take up arms and go to extremes- it does not justify what they do, for no one should kill innocents, but these groups like IS don't look at those things...for them its an eye for an eye.

 

Besides, IS is just the creation of the mayhem of the false and manipulated invasion of Iraq.

 

Go blame your government and the USA my friend and stop pointing at Islam

 

Go blame my government? I thought it was our government... aren't we all British? Why am I any more responsibly for British foreign policy than British Muslims?

 

I can see why someone living in somewhere like Iraq might hate us if he'd lost his family to one of our bombs. I can see why he might join an extremist group to fight back. I don't get why British Muslims would feel the same rage or why that would make the evil nonsense of the extremist groups alluring.

 

I hate our foreign policy but it doesn't turn me into an intolerant and violent extremism. For that to happen (generally) you need to have been raised Muslim. You religion and culture has you positioned where the leap to extremism is one short hop but for non-Muslims it's an unthinkable journey. That's the problem.

[remapper]

The Law Society last year got itself it hot water for issuing a guidance note to solicitors on how to draft Sharia compliant wills. It included discriminating against women, homosexuals, non-believers, people born out of wedlock etc. Did they misinterpret?

 

 

 

Go blame my government? I thought it was our government... aren't we all British? Why am I any more responsibly for British foreign policy than British Muslims?

 

I can see why someone living in somewhere like Iraq might hate us if he'd lost his family to one of our bombs. I can see why he might join an extremist group to fight back. I don't get why British Muslims would feel the same rage or why that would make the evil nonsense of the extremist groups alluring.

 

I hate our foreign policy but it doesn't turn me into an intolerant and violent extremism. For that to happen (generally) you need to have been raised Muslim. You religion and culture has you positioned where the leap to extremism is one short hop but for non-Muslims it's an unthinkable journey. That's the problem.

 

Thing is theres tens of thousands that have lost their family members, tens of thousands of maimed and disabled as a result, shell shocked, ptsd you name it but unlikely to receive any help from us or there own government. self perpetuating you got it in one.

[Blaster Bate]

Really? Can you point this out please as I have never seen anything to promote discrimination.

 

 

 

What about a start where Muslim lands stop being invaded and bombed?

 

I saw your other 'argument' that Muslims need to check their scripture because it is the cause of problems and extremism (in fact this is an argument quite a few non Muslims use and it is flawed).

 

Firstly, no where in the Qu'ran (but as you're an expert, perhaps you can point it out) does it state to go and kill innocents.

 

Secondly, it is not even a case of misinterpretation- why? Because the Qu'ran is clear in its legislation on Jihad and there are clear rulings around warfare.

 

Thirdly, ask yourself, what would you do if your family was bombed, then you read or heard another few hundred Palestinians died due to the foreign policy and support given to Israel, then you hear another few hundred innocent Muslim are bombed by a drone in Pakistan... do you think you need a scripture to go tell you to 'go lash out' or do you think something inside of you (as a human) will feel compelled to do something.

 

There lies your problem to what causes extremism. Ask yourself, did William Wallace need a scripture to tell him to fight against English colonialism?

 

Did the IRA need a scripture to tell them to lash out when hundreds of Catholic homes were destroyed, burned and people killed?

 

No they didn't.

 

When no one listens to the Muslims who are oppressed some will take up arms and go to extremes- it does not justify what they do, for no one should kill innocents, but these groups like IS don't look at those things...for them its an eye for an eye.

 

Besides, IS is just the creation of the mayhem of the false and manipulated invasion of Iraq.

 

Go blame your government and the USA my friend and stop pointing at Islam

Oh dear another in denial.

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 17:32 ----------

 

Go blame my government? I thought it was our government... aren't we all British? Why am I any more responsibly for British foreign policy than British Muslims?

 

Some are British only when it benefits them.

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 17:36 ----------

 

You've got a real dislike of all things Muslim haven't you.

Why because Zamo speaks the truth.

Do you agree that a woman should have several male witnesses to rape?

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 17:37 ----------

 

We have had religious arbitration in the UK for a long time, this is not a newly created thing.

Name them and state their powers.

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2015 at 17:39 ----------

 

If two people wish to use an arbitration service under rules that they both agree to, .

Oh and we all believe that Muslim women have a choice don't we, did you know that the moon is made of green cheese?

[Zamo]

Thing is theres tens of thousands that have lost their family members, tens of thousands of maimed and disabled as a result, shell shocked, ptsd you name it but unlikely to receive any help from us or there own government. self perpetuating you got it in one.

 

Yes, that explains why some people in places like Iraq may have gone to the dark side. It doesn't explain why so many British Muslims embrace the madness. The only explanation is the moderate version of Islam they are brought up in is actually 3/4 of the way to extreme.