What should a British Muslim do?

[Margarita Ma 10]

"Country before religious belief should be the norm for all who live and enjoy the welfare state that is Great Britain , If that is not the case then go where your love lies."

Looks to me as though they are doing just what you advocate, The trouble is they are also wanting to come back and having British Passports they will be able to unless their passports are rescinded before they attempt to return.

I also disagree with much of our foreign policy I have much sympathy with Palestinians for example. The goings on in Syria were severally complicated before our involvement. For instance The Bombs killing all and any people were claimed to be from several sources and denied by several sources. They are obviously not to be trusted or believed as they are killing their own people. We stopped doing this (in England at least) with the end of the Civil War(that was religiously based as well as political.)

We tend to think the rest of the world is like Britain: the reality is the majority of countries are not that like us. They don't have our laws or our values. My father used to say they are a hundred years behind us I think most Muslim countries are much further behind. The general population don't understand the reasons for Mohammed's thinking. Nor do they reason that the thinking was centuries ago before modern inventions. I too would wash five times a day living in the temperatures of Egypt in fact I did. Two years after the twin towers with my family thinking I was mad I went to Egypt. The people there were desperate to earn anything they could. the hotel ~i stayed in had been due to open the year of the attack and all the staff had to be dismissed. Some of the waitresses had holes in their blouses they were so poor. This is what is going to happen in Tunisia.

Either the People behind the terrorism are extremely dim or extremely clever either way their actions destroy the economies of the countries and the people that they claim to care about.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Margarita Ma
Added Quote and spelling spacing correction

[Abdul Rahman 10]

"We tend to think the rest of the world is like Britain: the reality is the majority of countries are not that like us. They don't have our laws or our values. My father used to say they are a hundred years behind us I think most Muslim countries are much further behind. The general population don't understand the reasons for Mohammed's thinking. Nor do they reason that the thinking was centuries ago before modern inventions..

 

This is TRUE , as I lived in both Britain and Kuwait.

[Plain Talker 11]

Blaster

You have it wrong, as usual.

The four witnesses are not needed as witnesses to rape. It's nothing todo with rape.

It's four witnesses to adultery.

Under Islamic law you are required, if you are bringing a charge of adultery against a woman, tohave four witnesses to the actual sex-act.

 

Secondly.

Bloodshed and warfare.

A) the Qur'an says, in chapter 5 v32

"If you take a life, it is as if you have killed the whole of mankind. If you save a life, it is as if you have saved the whole of mankind."

 

B)all this banging on about jihad this and jihad that...

The ignorant do not even understand that there are two different forms of jihad, the greater jihadand the lesser jihad. The greater jihad is the inner jihad, the struggle with one's desires and conquering the self. Folk need to understand the difference.

[Zamo 10]

Blaster

You have it wrong, as usual.

The four witnesses are not needed as witnesses to rape. It's nothing todo with rape.

It's four witnesses to adultery.

Under Islamic law you are required, if you are bringing a charge of adultery against a woman, tohave four witnesses to the actual sex-act.

 

Secondly.

Bloodshed and warfare.

A) the Qur'an says, in chapter 5 v32

"If you take a life, it is as if you have killed the whole of mankind. If you save a life, it is as if you have saved the whole of mankind."

 

B)all this banging on about jihad this and jihad that...

The ignorant do not even understand that there are two different forms of jihad, the greater jihadand the lesser jihad. The greater jihad is the inner jihad, the struggle with one's desires and conquering the self. Folk need to understand the difference.

 

What you need to realise is we don't need to realise anything about your chosen religion.

 

Religious freedom means we should be able to go about our lives untouched by religion if we so choose. The complaint being levelled at British Muslims is that the religion they follow, perpetuate and propagate does not leave the rest of us untouched and the negative impact is unacceptable. It is unacceptable that there is threat, that it costs billions of pounds to contain the threat and this is resulting in us all seeing our freedoms chipped away at in the name of security.

 

I don't care what it says in the Koran or what your interpretation of it is. All I care about is that when it is taught it leaves too many with extremist views who pose threat that cost us lives, money and freedoms. The fact is that if British Muslims abandoned their religion then the risk of their children being radicalised would plunge. If that is too high a price to save children from extremism in adulthood, and the rest of us from the woes they cause, then Muslims need to find a way to retain their religion and achieve the same outcome. I don't care how it is done as long as it is. It is all about the outcomes. Stop the extremism.

[eckby 10]

Blaster

You have it wrong, as usual.

The four witnesses are not needed as witnesses to rape. It's nothing todo with rape.

It's four witnesses to adultery.

Under Islamic law you are required, if you are bringing a charge of adultery against a woman, tohave four witnesses to the actual sex-act.

 

Secondly.

Bloodshed and warfare.

A) the Qur'an says, in chapter 5 v32

"If you take a life, it is as if you have killed the whole of mankind. If you save a life, it is as if you have saved the whole of mankind."

 

B)all this banging on about jihad this and jihad that...

The ignorant do not even understand that there are two different forms of jihad, the greater jihadand the lesser jihad. The greater jihad is the inner jihad, the struggle with one's desires and conquering the self. Folk need to understand the difference.

 

Is this version of the Koran inaccurate.

 

http://quran.com/5/32

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

 

http://quran.com/5/33

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

 

http://quran.com/5/35

Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

http://quran.com/5/36

Indeed, those who disbelieve - if they should have all that is in the earth and the like of it with it by which to ransom themselves from the punishment of the Day of Resurrection, it will not be accepted from them, and for them is a painful punishment

 

 

 

 

Its reads to me that killing a non believer is entirely justified.

 

 

 

If this version of the Koran isn't accurate would you be kind enough to post a link to the one used by British Muslims.

[mafya 250]

What you need to realise is we don't need to realise anything about your chosen religion.

 

Religious freedom means we should be able to go about our lives untouched by religion if we so choose. The complaint being levelled at British Muslims is that the religion they follow, perpetuate and propagate does not leave the rest of us untouched and the negative impact is unacceptable. It is unacceptable that there is threat, that it costs billions of pounds to contain the threat and this is resulting in us all seeing our freedoms chipped away at in the name of security.

 

I don't care what it says in the Koran or what your interpretation of it is. All I care about is that when it is taught it leaves too many with extremist views who pose threat that cost us lives, money and freedoms. The fact is that if British Muslims abandoned their religion then the risk of their children being radicalised would plunge. If that is too high a price to save children from extremism in adulthood, and the rest of us from the woes they cause, then Muslims need to find a way to retain their religion and achieve the same outcome. I don't care how it is done as long as it is. It is all about the outcomes. Stop the extremism.

 

My bold=

We don't need to listen to any of your sound bites regarding what we should or shouldn't do either.

Do you think Muslims are going to abandon their religion on the suggestion of a non Muslim? Behave yourself.

[Zamo 10]

My bold=

We don't need to listen to any of your sound bites regarding what we should or shouldn't do either.

Do you think Muslims are going to abandon their religion on the suggestion of a non Muslim? Behave yourself.

 

Abandon it or tone it down to prevent the extremism it currently generates. Nothing else will be tolerated in the long term. Don't blame the messenger... I'm just saying it as it is and you can take the advice or leave it.

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

Abandon it or tone it down to prevent the extremism it currently generates.

Not being rude, but it's a religion of around 1.5 billion people. Your solution is a little naive.

 

You think 1.5 billion Muslims are suddenly going to think "maybe Zamo has a point, our views are a little extreme. Let's delete some parts of our holy book." 1.5 billion are going to abandon their faith and culture based on your arguments. It's not going to happen. Take that advice as you wish - but it ain't.

 

The reformation you desire can only be done through the religion itself. Through Muslims finding their own way in the world - and conflict is part of that. You reference the Christian reformation but it took nearly 300 years of European conflict to settle those issues back down to the quiet simmer we know today.

 

I think that Islamic extremism, people killing and attacking and blowing up in the name of Allah, is part of the world we live in today. It isn't going away.

[milquetoast1 10]

Not being rude, but it's a religion of around 1.5 billion people. Your solution is a little naive.

 

You think 1.5 billion Muslims are suddenly going to think "maybe Zamo has a point, our views are a little extreme. Let's delete some parts of our holy book." 1.5 billion are going to abandon their faith and culture based on your arguments. It's not going to happen. Take that advice as you wish - but it ain't.

 

It happened, and continues to, with Christianity so why not Islam?

 

More than 100 Islamist extremists a year have been given platforms in UK Univesities every year, and now they are going to be forced to vet external speakers for “extremist” views as part of a renewed crackdown on radicalisation. This is us telling them that some of their "views are a little extreme".

 

In addition to this, following the revelation that Jihad John was Mohammed Emwazi, and the scale of the numbers of young Muslims going to support ISIS has become known, my dad has noted how the numbers of extemist speakers at Universities and mosques has pretty much dried up. This is the Muslim community telling themselves that some of their "views are a little extreme".

 

It's not about deleting bits, one can find whatever nice/horrible bits you want in the bible, it's about emphasis.

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

It happened, and continues to, with Christianity so why not Islam?

I said it could happen. Islam can reform itself - that is what we are going through. The Islamic Reformation. As little girls in Pakistan decide that they want to go to school, and young men in Egypt decide that they don't want to be told what to do by daft muftis. This it it. The other side of that is that other young men decide that they want war, and murder, for Allah. They want to build a new caliphate. It's all part of the same storm.

More than 100 Islamist extremists a year have been given platforms in UK Univesities every year, and now they are going to be forced to vet external speakers for “extremist” views as part of a renewed crackdown on radicalisation. This is us telling them that some of their "views are a little extreme".

I know. You're not going to portray me as some apologist. If a man wants to push his religion on other people against their will, then he is my enemy. I'm not a fool. I don't believe in God, or Allah, or Vishnu, and it's my fundamental right to live my life without that.

 

I spoke out against the Islamic Society at Sheffield Hallam here. You're not teaching me anything new.

 

What's your long-term view? Do you think the problem of people killing for this religion is going away?

[Cyclone 10]

So does that mean that in the spirit of this thread, all Christians are responsible for the behaviour of the KKK and abortion clinic bombing extremists?

[Blaster Bate 10]

Not being rude, but it's a religion of around 1.5 billion people. Your solution is a little naive.

 

You think 1.5 billion Muslims are suddenly going to think "maybe Zamo has a point, our views are a little extreme. Let's delete some parts of our holy book." 1.5 billion are going to abandon their faith and culture based on your arguments. It's not going to happen. Take that advice as you wish - but it ain't..

 

They daren't leave the religion or express an alternative view because if they do It's death.

The Christian woman in one of the Horn of Africa countries who'd converted to Christianity was not sentenced to death by a court of law but by a sharia court.

 

---------- Post added 01-07-2015 at 10:19 ----------

 

So does that mean that in the spirit of this thread, all Christians are responsible for the behaviour of the KKK and abortion clinic bombing extremists?

 

Those are individual views not the doctrine of any church whereas many muslim leaders condone and encourage mass murder, suicide bombings etc with promises of martyrdom plus 72 virgins.