tzijlstra Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 They created their own market buy out bidding FTB and leaving them with no choice but to rent, they played a significant role in inflating the bubble which lead to the crash. Can you provide ANY evidence for that claim? May I remind you that the crash occurred because too many dimwits in banks decided it was a good idea to lend money to people with bad financial planning skills, without checking them out appropriately? edit: btw, I do believe I have demonstrated, quite significantly, that there are plenty of choices for FTBs. They just need to choose the right path to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemanbob Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Can you provide ANY evidence for that claim? May I remind you that the crash occurred because too many dimwits in banks decided it was a good idea to lend money to people with bad financial planning skills, without checking them out appropriately? edit: btw, I do believe I have demonstrated, quite significantly, that there are plenty of choices for FTBs. They just need to choose the right path to get there. You can remind me of it but it doesn't change the fact that a global property bubble which was caused by property speculators caused the crash. ---------- Post added 28-07-2014 at 13:49 ---------- Can you provide ANY evidence for that claim? If there is a limited supply of something that everyone needs and government policy allows the wealthy to own as many as they want, it will inevitably lead to a shortage for the poorest members of that society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thats right, and it was propped up by BTL, second time buyers are the people usually selling the first time buyer house, without a first time buyer they can't sell so can't buy, BTL stepped in and bought the first time buyer houses and that allowed the market to continue overheating until it crashed, the market overheated until first time buyer could no longer afford to enter the market, traditionally at that point the bubble stops inflating and prices fall, they didn't because investors continued to buy houses in the full knowledge that young people would have no choice but to rent and the government would help them pay the rent. They did though. The inflation stopped and if it hadn't been for incredibly low interest rates it would have been a crash. Instead it was a bit of a soft landing. And in 5 years will the £80K house still be £80K and will they be the only person trying to buy it or will there be several BTL bidders trying to buy it. Inflation is still taking place, but not driven by BTL at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemanbob Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 They did though. The inflation stopped and if it hadn't been for incredibly low interest rates it would have been a crash. Instead it was a bit of a soft landing. Inflation is still taking place, but not driven by BTL at all. So you don't think that increased demand for something of limited supply will increase its price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Inflation is still taking place.. Not according to the coalition it isn't, well not on the essentials, the things we all buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 You can remind me of it but it doesn't change the fact that a global property bubble which was caused by property speculators caused the crash. You can keep repeating this, but it doesn't make it true. The crash was precipitated by relaxed lending criteria. If there is a limited supply of something that everyone needs and government policy allows the wealthy to own as many as they want, it will inevitably lead to a shortage for the poorest members of that society. That's true if the wealthy want the thing for it's own sake. But you can't live in more than one house, so it's not true of housing. ---------- Post added 28-07-2014 at 13:56 ---------- So you don't think that increased demand for something of limited supply will increase its price. I didn't say that at all, I said it's not driven by BTL. BTL buying is very constrained now, it is not providing significant demand. ---------- Post added 28-07-2014 at 13:57 ---------- Not according to the coalition it isn't, well not on the essentials, the things we all buy. And if you'd like to stay on topic, we're talking about houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemanbob Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 You can keep repeating this, but it doesn't make it true. The crash was precipitated by relaxed lending criteria. That's true if the wealthy want the thing for it's own sake. But you can't live in more than one house, so it's not true of housing. And if millions of people hadn't used that money to invest in property, there wouldn't have been a property bubble or a crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 And if millions of people hadn't used that money to invest in property, there wouldn't have been a property bubble or a crash. You are saying that BTL investors caused the crash, they didn't. You are saying BTL investors are responsible for pushing out first time buyers, they didn't. The way you are arguing I am beginning to think that in your ideal world we would all be given a nice free house to live in, got our shopping paid for through magic fairy dust (it wouldn't be called shopping, it would be called taking) and people don't have a responsibility to manage their own finances. I hate to burst your bubble bob, but that isn't the world we live in. We do however live in a world with opportunities for everybody prepared to put in the effort and planning to get them, including buying a house. You keep referring to some mythical person that got duped because a BTL investor offered more, I can refer to actual people, on or around the national living wage (whatever that means) that didn't get pipped to the post and did make it onto the ladder, not with ease, but with planning. It really doesn't take all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 And if you'd like to stay on topic, we're talking about houses. They did though. The inflation stopped Inflation is still taking place Er, a case of biter bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemanbob Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I didn't say that at all, I said it's not driven by BTL. BTL buying is very constrained now, it is not providing significant demand. Yet they are still competing and out bidding first time buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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