Too much information - later problems (MMR)

[El Cid 221]

 

I still maintain that anyone who has not vaccinated their children are not necessarily irresponsible, in fact as in our case, they are quite the contrary.

 

Me too. There wasa woman on radio 4 saying that children should catch illnesses in order to build up their immunity.

I have the same opinion, but should it be different for serious illnesses? As I posted in another thread about my mistrust of pillpoppers, I prefer the body to heal itself.

[cgksheff 44]

I believe that there may be a link.

It probably involves a level of pre-disposition.

 

I believe that to vaccinate is better than not to.

 

Mine were.

[tinfoilhat 11]

My oldest Daughter has had all her vaccinations too (that was before we started to research it) and is fine but I fail to see the logic there, still I respect your opinion..

 

I still maintain that anyone who has not vaccinated their children are not necessarily irresponsible, in fact as in our case, they are quite the contrary.

 

---------- Post added 19-04-2013 at 23:54 ----------

 

I spent the afternoon digging on the subject of Wakefield and it appears to me that he has in no way been discredited, what his findings were as I read it, the MMR jab could have a link to bowel disorders which in turn could have effects on the brain...

What they call discrediting is the ethics of the procedure to which he came to the conclusion but not the actual theory, even more disturbing is that, as stated in a previous post, his research was never followed up and tests were never made to see if his theory was correct, instead they spent millions on a law suit to discredit a man who was actually only raising concerns and doing his job by publishing his findings in a medical journal.

 

You have to ask the question, why did they go after him so fiercely but never followed up his research?

 

Can't you just ask/pay for the individual vaccines ?

[InigoMontoya 10]

you can`t blame them, it`s human nature to be lead into a panic

 

 

It' is the fault of the parents who didn't immunise their children despite them being unambiguously informed there wasn't a shred of evidence to support the scare stories.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2013 at 06:59 ----------

 

cheers, it worries me as neither of my children were able to have the MMR vaccine

 

And there's the rub, people.

 

"Unable to have".

 

It's because there's the reservoir of the virus out there "in the wild" that could infect those among us who've neither suffered the disease as youngsters, nor been immunised through no fault of their own or their parents.

[aliceBB 10]

Me too. There wasa woman on radio 4 saying that children should catch illnesses in order to build up their immunity.

I have the same opinion, but should it be different for serious illnesses? As I posted in another thread about my mistrust of pillpoppers, I prefer the body to heal itself.

 

I heard that too and found her argument had some validity. The problem is that most UK children's bodies are to a greater or lesser extent malnourished (dehydrated and deficient in vitamins, complex carbohydrates and minerals, suffering from over-consumption of saturated fat and refined sugars). Building up your own immunity to infectious diseases works best when you are optimally nourished. i.e. breastfed for the first six months at least, then healthy meals thereafter (even a wartime diet was healthier than what most people eat now). A healthy body can generally (but not always) cope with exposure to measles, mumps etc; the child would get the illness and (usually) recover with no ill effects. I'm not convinced that most unimmunised British children would 'cope'; on balance it is better that, as in developing countries, children are immunised, ensuring their own resistance and protecting those too young to be immunised (babies) by preventing their exposure to the diseases.

 

The autism scare has been discredited. Apart from anything else, Wakefield's study sample was highly selective (based on his friends' children, etc), and he mis-presented his results. Other researchers have demonstrated that if autism develops in a child, it is co-incidental that the symptoms first appear around the same age as vaccinations are given. There's a lot of research suggesting that autistic spectrum disorders are associated with an abnormal surge of testosterone in utero at around 12-13 weeks. There's no sound evidence to prove it can be caused by vaccinations. No medical intervention is entirely without risk but it's a case of weighing up the pros and cons.

Edited April 20, 2013 by aliceBB

[bazrippa 10]

The autism scare has been discredited. Apart from anything else, Wakefield's study sample was highly selective (based on his friends' children, etc), and he mis-presented his results.

No I disagree with that, the man was discredited in the media and demonised but the studies he published were never followed up on as far as I can see..

I may be wrog so if someone can point out these studies to me I would appreciate it.

 

I do totally agree with your view on nutrition though, I am of the opinion that if you have all the relevant nutrition then humans are capable of fighting off more diseases than could ever be vaccinated against, it is just a shame that processed food does not provide this in the first place.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2013 at 17:08 ----------

 

Can't you just ask/pay for the individual vaccines ?

I am looking into this now, it does seem expensive though..

[Annie Bynnol 614]

No I disagree with that, the man was discredited in the media and demonised but the studies he published were never followed up on as far as I can see...

 

 

The work was attacked by ethical, medical, mathematical and scientific opinions from the start from all over the world. here

Yes he was later (far too late)discredited by the press who had also given him the publicity but it was easy because "...he ordered invasive investigations on children without either the qualifications or authority to do so. He conducted research on nine children without Ethics Committee approval. He mismanaged funds, and accepted tens of thousands of pounds from lawyers attempting to discredit the MMR vaccine, being found by the GMC to have intentionally misled the Legal Aid Board in the process" New StatesmanQuoted because they word things better than I do-in the hope that AW isn't given the public platform to express his view on MMR/ASD which has and will for many years to come cause harm.

 

Measles should not be treated as a childhood disease that we put up with-it harm and kills people and it is preventable.

[El Cid 221]

I am looking into this now, it does seem expensive though..

 

With the MMR, you need one injection and then a follow up; with single injections this will be six injections. All that extra times between injections will leave children more vunerable, if they get all six.

[bazrippa 10]

The work was attacked by ethical, medical, mathematical and scientific opinions from the start from all over the world.

Please provide the links to the studies, I have searched and I find no such study!

If Wakefield is wrong which he may well be, then why did the Authorities not follow up on his work in order to prove that it was utter nonsense??

This is a red flag for me!

Also if by 4 years old the majority of children have had the booster jabs to make them 100% immune, why would the parents who have fully vaccinated children need to worry at all??

[SpikeMac 10]

Also if by 4 years old the majority of children have had the booster jabs to make them 100% immune, why would the parents who have fully vaccinated children need to worry at all??

 

The vaccination is roughly 95% succesful, so 5% of vaccinated kids are still not protected. This isn't a problem if most people are vaccinated, herd immunity will see to that.

 

If the 5% are augmented by lots of unvaccinated kids, you get a situation like the one in Wales.

 

Baz, it is your choice, but all the science points to the vaccination being the safest route. It is also the most socially responsible one, for the reasons outlined above.

[Jessica23 10]

Please provide the links to the studies, I have searched and I find no such study!

If Wakefield is wrong which he may well be, then why did the Authorities not follow up on his work in order to prove that it was utter nonsense??

This is a red flag for me!

Also if by 4 years old the majority of children have had the booster jabs to make them 100% immune, why would the parents who have fully vaccinated children need to worry at all??

 

There are two examples of follow-up studies mentioned in Ben Goldacre's blog that someone linked to earlier. One of them is in the Journal of Medical Virology, and one is in the journal Pediatrics. Neither of them is open access, but they replicate some of Wakefield's work and do not find the same results that he did.

 

Unless you're an immunologist, reading those studies isn't going to tell you anything you won't be able to read elsewhere. Like on Ben Goldacre's blog, for example. Or in his book.

[Annie Bynnol 614]

Please provide the links to the studies, I have searched and I find no such study!

If Wakefield is wrong which he may well be, then why did the Authorities not follow up on his work in order to prove that it was utter nonsense??

 

 

I did - again in a bit more detail- click here and you will find several references to several papers/articles which evaluate his work.

They did- if by 'Authorities' you mean the government health ministers-health advisor -science advisor and their civil servants and advisors. There is no lab in Westminster or anywhere else that can provide instant answers but there is a system were information is sourced. Too often found wanting this time the advice to and from the Government was correct.

Further studies were made- click hereno one has been able to repeat his work and get the same results and the original work was found to be flawed.

In the intervening years no statistical or scientific evidence has linked MMR with ASD which can be tested.