The Green Deal scheme

[Movehut 10]

This scheme affects both residential and commercial properties. You can find out more how it affects your business here.

[Mac_Plas 10]

tanktwo, how big is the gable?

 

that is a hell of a lot of £ that, going rate is between £15-£22 p/m2 what the councils are paying subbies, which is a very poor rate.

 

i wonder who is creaming that then.

[Tanktwo 10]

It's only a small terraced house, and in fairness that was a rough idea given to me by the contractor who installed the free insulation (my tenant gets some benefits) last year. Does external cladding work, does it make condensation and mould any worse? I'm afraid I have become very suspicious of some of these insulation companies. One of them wanted my tenant to sign up for cavity wall insulation and without permisson drilled 2 test holes. I had to point out to them that the house doesn't have cavity walls, but doesn't it beg the question, how much money has been milked from the government for "installing" it in houses like mine?

[Mr Peacock 10]

Green Deal report on BBC news today....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21226042

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2013 at 07:24 ----------

 

You can upgrade heating systems, insulate better etc etc to your hearts content but until our attitudes to energy use change then it will be the same old story.

We waste so much energy in our homes through laziness and bad habits. I'd hazard a guess that you can make a huge dent in your bills by simply using your energy more sparingly and efficiently.

 

What if there aren't any savings? How is the loan paid for then? There's no guarantee that a householder will see those figures quoted below. Your annual energy savings are based on exact energy usage with new boiler and haven't taken into account the inevitable energy price increases that would all but wipe it out or the attitude of said homeowner. What if its a particularly cold winter???

 

The figures stack up nicely on a fact sheet but I suspect reality will differ

 

The process of a Green Deal assessment of a property and its occupants is in 2 parts.

 

The first part is the assessment of the properties current energy performance, and will identify what improvements can be made.

 

The second part of the assessment is the occupancy assessment which gathers exact information regarding the occupants behaviour / usage patterns / consumption of energy in their home. i.e. How many people live there, what is the total number of baths / showers per week, what temp and how is the heating set. Also a full 12 months worth of the previous actual energy bill data is required.

 

The occupancy assessment (if done accurately) will ensure that the savings calculated are realistic, and therefor that the golden rule criteria if met, is not a distorted figure.

 

This way I cannot see how the savings cannot be met. The only way the bills should increase after a Green Deal improvement has been done is if....

 

A) The tenant changes their behaviour / usage of the energy they consume e.g. leaving windows and doors wide open, when they didnt before, or...

 

B) The actual cost of Gas / Electricity increases.

 

Now there is little you can do about point A, as that is out of everyones hands, and I totally agree that people need to be educated about ways to save energy through behavioural changes.

 

Now there is not much point looking at point B either, because one thing you can be 100% certain of, is that fuel costs will rise. I would argue that I would rather live in an improved property to offset those fuel price rises.

 

A good example is lets say you drive a 2 litre petrol car (car A), and you decide to change it for a 1 litre petrol car (car B) because the fuel costs are becoming expensive.

At some stage in the future when the fuel cost have gone up, the fuel cost of car B, will be the same as the old fuel cost of car A. However, had you never changed the car you would be hit with an even higher fuel cost of car A.

 

Its all too easy to focus on picking fault with Green Deal at this stage, because it is a new scheme that has not been had chance to prove itself yet. Only time will tell, but lets not forget what the purpose of Green Deal is, and that is to reduce the UK's carbon emmissions, via improving the energy efficiency of the existing buildings where possible.

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2013 at 07:42 ----------

 

I'm really sceptical about the Green Deal. Last year my tenant had free additional loft insualtion put in on a government scheme. I think it is causing a problem with condensation and mould, it's almost as if the house can't breathe anymore. I would be very reluctant to have the gable end wall insulated externally (cost £10K) on the Green Deal, not just because it would take so long to recoup the outlay, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't cause me more problems. I have had some considerable correspondence with the Government department on this matter. They do not realise that many terraced houses built in the early 20th century do not have cavity walls, and the cost of insulating them set against the benefits/possible damage is not easily calculated. I'm a good landlord, and I would do anything to help my tenant have lower fuel bills, any suggestions/experiences would be most welcome.

 

It sounds like you may have issues with the quality of the installation of your insullation.

 

An insulation company should ensure that any measures they install will not cause thermal bridging which can lead to damp.

 

They should install any necessary ventilation / vapour barriers to ensure this doesnt happen.

 

If your installation was done professionally, then you should have an installation certificate, and the install should be registered. If it has then I suggest you get the install checked under its guarantee.

 

Green Deal is heavily audited, and standards will be checked regularly. You also have the protection of lengthy warranties under Green Deal.

 

With regards to solid wall insulation, ECO may contribute a significant, if not 100% of the cost towards the solid wall insulation, which does not have to be repaid in the same way that Green Deal finance does. To qualify under ECO certain criteria have to be met i.e. is the occupier in receipt of any benefits, or is the property difficult to treat (solid wall / narrow cavity)

 

I would recommend anyone with a solid wall property to at least find out what they can get.

[wibbles 10]

Green Deal report on BBC news today....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21226042

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2013 at 07:24 ----------

 

 

The process of a Green Deal assessment of a property and its occupants is in 2 parts.

 

The first part is the assessment of the properties current energy performance, and will identify what improvements can be made.

 

The second part of the assessment is the occupancy assessment which gathers exact information regarding the occupants behaviour / usage patterns / consumption of energy in their home. i.e. How many people live there, what is the total number of baths / showers per week, what temp and how is the heating set. Also a full 12 months worth of the previous actual energy bill data is required.

 

The occupancy assessment (if done accurately) will ensure that the savings calculated are realistic, and therefor that the golden rule criteria if met, is not a distorted figure.

 

This way I cannot see how the savings cannot be met. The only way the bills should increase after a Green Deal improvement has been done is if....

 

A) The tenant changes their behaviour / usage of the energy they consume e.g. leaving windows and doors wide open, when they didnt before, or...

 

B) The actual cost of Gas / Electricity increases.

 

Now there is little you can do about point A, as that is out of everyones hands, and I totally agree that people need to be educated about ways to save energy through behavioural changes.

 

Now there is not much point looking at point B either, because one thing you can be 100% certain of, is that fuel costs will rise. I would argue that I would rather live in an improved property to offset those fuel price rises.

 

A good example is lets say you drive a 2 litre petrol car (car A), and you decide to change it for a 1 litre petrol car (car B) because the fuel costs are becoming expensive.

At some stage in the future when the fuel cost have gone up, the fuel cost of car B, will be the same as the old fuel cost of car A. However, had you never changed the car you would be hit with an even higher fuel cost of car A.

 

Its all too easy to focus on picking fault with Green Deal at this stage, because it is a new scheme that has not been had chance to prove itself yet. Only time will tell, but lets not forget what the purpose of Green Deal is, and that is to reduce the UK's carbon emmissions, via improving the energy efficiency of the existing buildings where possible.

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2013 at 07:42 ----------

 

 

 

Regarding point A. I'd like to see a government initiative educating householders to change their habits. The cost to the tax payer would be a lot less and the benefits would be instantaneous with minimal, if any, financial outlay or administrative hassle. Point B will happen, and I suspect that whilst people won't start leaving their windows open per se, Point A will have an impact on some householders..it's human nature. I keep bleating on about it but we are so wasteful and until that attitude changes the government will struggle to meet it's targets, especially if it's solely relying on the Green Deal scheme.

 

Also, lets not forget new homes. Whilst they are built to a particular standard, guidance provided by the Building Regs, the quality of workmanship on many, especially the mass produced housing..Barratts, Taylor Woodrow etc is sub-standard. Inspection and monitoring of new builds is minimal and sign off of a property (I've seen it first hand) is at times shockingly haphazard....handshakes, nod & winks, cup of coffee in the cabin and gentle persuasion by the site manager that his subbies have installed it 'to the highest' standard.

 

It's all just a sticking plaster solution. You attempt to reduce emissions through one scheme but new houses aren't being built to a decent standard so any savings are wiped out.

There needs to be wholesale change, industry wide with more regulation and better inspection and monitoring.

 

I'm curious..maybe you can advise on the costs associated with the Green Deal scheme, not including the actual installation or energy costs...more the cost of the evaluation, early repayment charges etc as you haven't mentioned these in your figures above.

Edited January 29, 2013 by wibbles

[jennas12 10]

There are many issues related to the assessment costs are prevailing now a days. But people need to get correct information in order to make correct decisions. If you have doubts that you will have to pay much for being a part of this Deal then you can shop around for Green Deal providers and can get interest rate as low as 4%.

[Magna 10]

Any advice on how the green deal can be utilised for solid wall insulation? Can you reccomend any new deal providers?

[retired 10]

From what I can make out of the green deal you cannot ask for just one component of energy saving measures it has to be the whole package. It may include floor and roof insulation, heating etc.

 

There was some excitement in the trade when it was going to be launched but now I hear of installers opting out as the money to be made is not that good and it takes a while for installers to get paid. I think myself the Green Deal is another one of those schemes that will die a death. But if the whole package is what you are after then you could be onto a winner if the sums add up.

 

As to solid wall insulation then it can be internally or externally. Internally will mean every outside wall on the inside and the rooms will become smaller. There are also things to consider like coving, window sills, radiators that will need moving and door frames are hard to overcome. The other way is external insulation which is an insulated rendering system. Nothing like the old sand and cement render but factory produced lightweight polymer renders on insulation panels. Even this system has obstacles like soil pipes and window sills but they are easier to overcome externally than the problems associated with the inside method.

 

Such as a stone fronted house may have to have a combination of both internal on the stone wall and external on the brick walls.

 

Another alternative to the Green Deal or Eco is to pay for what you want yourself and progress at your own pace as finances allows.

 

For the external render system try http://www.rendermaster.co.uk he is doing quite a bit of external insulation work mainly in S6 and S10.

[Mac_Plas 10]

Retired has covered this, you could also try sheffield insulations, they have got their own system set up with Weber for EWI and have their own trained installers.

 

Hope this helps, Chris

[benins 10]

Try this company 2red based in Nottingham that specialises in internal wall insulation, they will be able to advise if you would be entitled to get your project partially or fully funded through either ECO or Greendeal.

[Magna 10]

thanks for the suggestions, great!

[Micky ET 10]

We Work closely with keep sheffield warm try them local independent company. its okay getting the green deal through the big boys but you pay twice the price, the loan takes twice as long to repay! If you have good credit with your bank it can work out cheaper to use a local supplier and get a loan ! worth looking into ! some hard to treat solid wall properties can also be part funded.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Micky ET