If you were American, would you support greater gun control in the US?

[Old Tom]

 

What do you base that figure on? That it takes 30 seconds to kill every person? It's not a production line.

 

I was asked a question. How long would you think and don't forget to include what that's based on.

[Agent Orange]

That's the whole point. They don't run off. In the school in the USA teachers huddled with children in corners and tried to hide. It doesn't take too long to whack someone with a machete.

 

The police in the New Forest came under fire (not gun fire) in December for taking more than 20 minutes to arrive at the scene of an armed kidnap. It isn't really difficult to see why.

 

Once an incident takes place folk need time to react and make the 999 call. 2 minutes gone already..The call takes time. They need to establish the facts. 5 minutes can easily have past before the armed response even know there's an emergency. Then they have to get there (if they aren't already dealing with another incident) How many armed response cars do we have in Sheffield?

Even getting armed officers to the cinema in Meadowhall would probably be a minimum 10 minute drive. It could easily be double. Then they need to get their kit and get to the cinema. What do you reckon? another 5 minutes? A bit of dither time taking instructions. That sounds like 20/25 minutes to me. So how many casualties would you anticipate them finding?

Now if the same happened at a village school in Scotland>..............

 

Why would you imagine the US borders being pretty tight?. US citizens don't even need a passport to go to and from most of the Caribbean. There are 10s of thousands of illegals cross the borders every year. The land borders are 6000 miles long and the sea borders even longer.

 

But the killer in the American case was armed with a gun, not a machete. People can easily outrun a person with a machete, but cannot outrun bullet(s).

 

I don't know the details of the incident you mentioned so cannot comment.

 

Response times are between 10 and 15 minutes according to the few police websites I have viewed. That sounds about right to me, especially in the more built up areas where ARV's routinely patrol. South Yorkshire Police have 4 armed response vehicles, however, I am not sure if these are all on patrol at the same time. As for getting their kit, the officers are already kitted out (or least their cars are) before each shift so getting ready is not an issue.

 

Have you tried crossing the US border from Mexico?

[Harleyman]

To be honest the worst case scenario would be someone in a cinema with a shot gun loaded with AAA. They are even legal to own in the UK.

 

The difference between the UK and America is in the USA you can buy a Mossberg pump with folding stock and a magazine that takes 9 3" magnum rounds. You could probably stick a dozen shells in the thing if you used 2 1/2 inch.

In a crowd you can't miss and could probably take out 4 or 5 folk with each shot, so a full magazine would leave a cinema crowd decimated before a gunman needed to reach for the similar gun in the other pocket.

2 dozen shots in 20 seconds and no one would be walking. A gunman could probably even take time out to reload as no one else would be standing.

The simple solution to that and the machete scenario is to ensure no one gets into the building armed in the first place. That way you avoid the debate about whether or not you can take on an armed fanatic with a big stick or a bar stool, because the simple answer is that you won't win.

 

How would you do that? 90 percent of the employees at movie theatres anywhere for miles around in my neck of the woods are college students working on a part time basis.

 

The movie theatre owners are not going to turn them into part time rent a cops and neither would they be willing to take on such responsibilities. The theatre owners are not going to hire a a couple of professional security guards for every theatre in the large chain of theatres they own just for the extra cost involved which would be very considerable.

 

Lets forget the machete scenario for a moment and tell me how it would be possible to stop some individual armed with a small revolver and some spare ammo hidden away under his wind cheater from entering the theatre.

 

The answer is that there is no way. The reality is that we live in a society and socialize with our fellow beings based on the mutual trust that the people around you are as sane as you are and have no intent to harm you in any way. In 99.99999 instances this is true

[Old Tom]

But the killer in the American case was armed with a gun, not a machete. People can easily outrun a person with a machete, but cannot outrun bullet(s).

 

I don't know the details of the incident you mentioned so cannot comment.

 

Response times are between 10 and 15 minutes according to the few police websites I have viewed. That sounds about right to me, especially in the more built up areas where ARV's routinely patrol. South Yorkshire Police have 4 armed response vehicles, however, I am not sure if these are all on patrol at the same time. As for getting their kit, the officers are already kitted out (or least their cars are) before each shift so getting ready is not an issue.

 

Have you tried crossing the US border from Mexico?

 

 

Wow. South Yorkshire with an area of 1500 square kilometres has 4 armed response vehicles, all of which might not be out at any one time and you believe that those vehicles can be at the site of any incident in 10 to 15 minutes.:loopy: That is cloud cuckoo land even ignoring the 999 response time and the time getting from a vehicle into the actual incident.

 

Anyhow back to the debate...

 

I only picked up on a machete from another poster. In the UK folks have ready access to shotguns. You can buy a perfectly legal old pump action shotgun, and if you had criminal intent uncrimp the magazine and slip 9 rounds into it. So I suppose your nutter knowing now that the police only have 4 armed response vehicles for the whole of the county could set about some real carnage.

Turn up at a night club, a school or a cinema with a gallon of unleaded, a pump action and a machete in the knowledge that it is going to be an age before armed response turns up.

Set a fire in the stair wells and off you go. I wonder if you feel we are any safer from the nutters than they are in the USA, because from what you've told me it seems that we've just been lucky.SO FAR.

 

Sorry you asked if I'd ever crossed the border from Mexico to the USA. No I haven't but 300,000 illegal immigrants do every year. But that suggests you are seriously suggesting the US ban all guns including shotguns. You can cause as much damage with a shot gun as a rifle. It just saves you having to aim it.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 17:45 ----------

 

How would you do that? 90 percent of the employees at movie theatres anywhere for miles around in my neck of the woods are college students working on a part time basis.

 

The movie theatre owners are not going to turn them into part time rent a cops and neither would they be willing to take on such responsibilities. The theatre owners are not going to hire a a couple of professional security guards for every theatre in the large chain of theatres they own just for the extra cost involved which would be very considerable.

 

Lets forget the machete scenario for a moment and tell me how it would be possible to stop some individual armed with a small revolver and some spare ammo hidden away under his wind cheater from entering the theatre.

 

The answer is that there is no way. The reality is that we live in a society and socialize with our fellow beings based on the mutual trust that the people around you are as sane as you are and have no intent to harm you in any way. In 99.99999 instances this is true

 

We've moved on here. These guys are talking about a maniac in a UK cinema or school. But we've got 4 armed response vehicles in South Yorkshire, so no need to worry.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Old Tom

[Agent Orange]

Wow. South Yorkshire with an area of 1500 square kilometres has 4 armed response vehicles, all of which might not be out at any one time and you believe that those vehicles can be at the site of any incident in 10 to 15 minutes.:loopy: That is cloud cuckoo land even ignoring the 999 response time and the time getting from a vehicle into the actual incident.

 

Anyhow back to the debate...

 

I only picked up on a machete from another poster. In the UK folks have ready access to shotguns. You can buy a perfectly legal old pump action shotgun, and if you had criminal intent uncrimp the magazine and slip 9 rounds into it. So I suppose your nutter knowing now that the police only have 4 armed response vehicles for the whole of the county could set about some real carnage.

Turn up at a night club, a school or a cinema with a gallon of unleaded, a pump action and a machete in the knowledge that it is going to be an age before armed response turns up.

Set a fire in the stair wells and off you go. I wonder if you feel we are any safer from the nutters than they are in the USA, because from what you've told me it seems that we've just been lucky.SO FAR.

 

Sorry you asked if I'd ever crossed the border from Mexico to the USA. No I haven't but 300,000 illegal immigrants do every year. But that suggests you are seriously suggesting the US ban all guns including shotguns. You can cause as much damage with a shot gun as a rifle. It just saves you having to aim it.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 17:45 ----------

 

 

We've moved on here. These guys are talking about a maniac in a UK cinema or school. But we've got 4 armed response vehicles in South Yorkshire, so no need to worry.

 

Do you have evidence to back up your claim about the police response times being more than 10-15 minutes?

 

You are obsessed with machete massacres.

[Harleyman]

Why not? with regards to the machete scenario

 

Have you ever tackled a man wielding a machete? Tell us how you overcame him without sustaining any injury more serious that a few scratches Chuck Norris

[RootsBooster]

Have you ever tackled a man wielding a machete? Tell us how you overcame him without sustaining any injury more serious that a few scratches Chuck Norris

 

Ah, Harley doing what he does best, making assumptions and trying to ridicule. In answer to your question, only a man with a rubber machete, in class.

 

What was the point of this post, by the way?

[Chris_Sleeps]

I was asked a question. How long would you think and don't forget to include what that's based on.

I wouldn't know. I'd have to make an answer up.

 

50 in 10 seconds, taking in a 2 second break to wipe the congealed blood out of my eyes.

[Harleyman]

Ah, Harley doing what he does best, making assumptions and trying to ridicule. In answer to your question, only a man with a rubber machete, in class.What was the point of this post, by the way?

 

That seems to have made you an authority on subduing a mentally disturbed person, very possibly much stronger than you without risking a traumatic injury in the process.

 

I'm big enough to be able to take care of myself and have had training in unarmed combat but if the option were available and at the same time having no particular desire to risk having my skull cleaved open I would just shoot the bastid.... problem solved.

 

Hi Yup Pilgrim ! Chew on that for awhile

[Lotusflower]

That seems to have made you an authority on subduing a mentally disturbed person, very possibly much stronger than you without risking a traumatic injury in the process.

 

I'm big enough to be able to take care of myself and have had training in unarmed combat but if the option were available and at the same time having no particular desire to risk having my skull cleaved open I would just shoot the bastid.... problem solved.

 

Hi Yup Pilgrim ! Chew on that for awhile

 

Cos a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...three fingers o' redeye bartender!

And a crocodile sandwich and make it snappy.

 

I love panto season!