14yr old girl reported as injured by the Taliban.

[PaliRichard]

So it’s possible then for someone that isn't ignorant to form an entirely different opinion on Islam to you.

 

Someone who has all the facts may form whatever opinion they wish, however, if they have all the facts they would never call a Muslim a terrorist because they would be aware that someone who is a terrorist cannot be living in line with what the Quran teaches.

 

So a person who is a terrorist and calls themself Muslim is no more a Muslim than you or I are, unfortunately many British people don't understand this because they are not in possesion of the facts, so they lump everyone who claims to Muslim in one boat wether they are Muslim or not.

[maxmaximus]

Someone who has all the facts may form whatever opinion they wish, however, if they have all the facts they would never call a Muslim a terrorist because they would be aware that someone who is a terrorist cannot be living in line with what the Quran teaches.

 

So a person who is a terrorist and calls themself Muslim is no more a Muslim than you or I are, unfortunately many British people don't understand this because they are not in possesion of the facts, so they lump everyone who claims to Muslim in one boat wether they are Muslim or not.

 

So we are back to your opinion is the only correct opinion and everyone with a different opinion must be ignorant. It’s this kind self impotence and attitude that has started wars in the past, you have an opinion to which you are entitled, but you are no more right or wrong than anyone else with an opinion.

To claim that a Muslim isn't a Muslim just because they don’t share your views on Islam, is a tad arrogant.

[PaliRichard]

So we are back to your opinion is the only correct opinion and everyone with a different opinion must be ignorant. It’s this kind self impotence and attitude that has started wars in the past, you have an opinion to which you are entitled, but you are no more right or wrong than anyone else with an opinion.

To claim that a Muslim isn't a Muslim just because they don’t share your views on Islam, is a tad arrogant.

 

I'm not claiming that.

 

I'm saying that Muslim means one who submits to the will of Allah, which is the Quran, as these terrorists very often act against the instructions in the Quran then they are, by definition, not Muslim.

 

If they attempt to kill anyone unless they are in a conflict on a battlefield and their lives are in danger - as a minimum requirement - then they are not Muslim. As people who shoot women for protesting, blow up trains/buses, fly into buildings etc are not on a battlefield where their life is in danger they are not Muslim - by definition.

 

So that is not my opinion, that is the fact of the matter - if you wish to define a Muslim as something different to that then you are using the word out of context.

[Chris_Sleeps]

I'm saying that Muslim means one who submits to the will of Allah, which is the Quran, as these terrorists very often act against the instructions in the Quran

The book that contradicts itself, and can be interpreted in different ways by different people. The Quran does offer a place in Paradise for martyrs who die defending their faith. It's this belief that gives suicide bombers the conviction to put on dynamite underpants.

 

Anyone who attempts to label all muslims as killers is silly, because they aren't. You've gone the other way and cleansed all of Islam as peaceful and that none of them are killers, which is equally as silly.

 

It's a religion. People will take the bits out that they like and dislike.

[boyfriday]

It's not being naive at all. Children in this country are not usually force fed on religion. They are free to make up their own minds.

I've never encountered religious parents who don't bring their children up in a religious environment..church, Sunday school, the whole shebang.

My parents were nominally Cof E but that wasn't forced onto me and I didn't accept it.

So they weren't really religious at all were they? I don't think the Christian scripture allows for 'nominally', in fact it requires it's followers to evangelise and spread the Gospel, you should familiarise yourself with Matthew 28:19.

I was free to adopt any religious mumbo-jumbo that I wanted.

Of course you were because your parents were ambivalent about religion!

Now that is clearly not the position in Pakistan where failure to adopt the correct religion would likely be a death wish.

Nor is it the position anywhere where people adhere to a religious code.

[Bigthumb]

The book that contradicts itself, and can be interpreted in different ways by different people. The Quran does offer a place in Paradise for martyrs who die defending their faith. It's this belief that gives suicide bombers the conviction to put on dynamite underpants.

 

Anyone who attempts to label all muslims as killers is silly, because they aren't. You've gone the other way and cleansed all of Islam as peaceful and that none of them are killers, which is equally as silly.

 

It's a religion. People will take the bits out that they like and dislike.

 

I agree with you on that but Islam is intolerant of those who question it or fail to accept the ranting of its clerics which is why these nutter preachers found such receptive audiences.

 

Islam and its practitioners are (and have always been) particularly terrified by two things;

 

KNOWLEDGE of any of its perversions or even discussion of them.

DISOBEDIENCE - each member of their "umma", or community, is expected to adhere blindly to the dictates of every figure of authority (always male) within Islam. Deviation is never tolerated in case it ultimately leads to a breakdown in the system of fear & absolute authority.

[PaliRichard]

The book that contradicts itself, and can be interpreted in different ways by different people. The Quran does offer a place in Paradise for martyrs who die defending their faith. It's this belief that gives suicide bombers the conviction to put on dynamite underpants.

 

Anyone who attempts to label all muslims as killers is silly, because they aren't. You've gone the other way and cleansed all of Islam as peaceful and that none of them are killers, which is equally as silly.

 

It's a religion. People will take the bits out that they like and dislike.

 

No I haven't, I'm merely commenting on the statements at hand.

 

If people want to start a thread about why they think Islam is not the true religion, I'd be happy to contribute as to why I think it's take on science is completely wrong, why I don't agree with lashing adulters etc, but we're not talking about that.

 

Regarding offering a place in paradise to martyrs I agree, but it is strictly in the confines of battle and the rules are laid out as to what constitutes 'allowed' and 'not allowed' in battle, PlainTalker made an excellent post the other day detailing accepted behaviour in war.

 

You have already kept telling me it contradicts itself but have yet to show me where - less the accepted abrigations - as they are accepted they are not contradictions, as no one is trying to pretend that they still stand.

 

The fact remains that a Muslim is someone who lives in accordance with the Quran - and the people who carry out these atrocities (and some who don't) are more often than not directly going against the teachings in the book - thus they are not Muslim.

[Joseph Anton]

I've never encountered religious parents who don't bring their children up in a religious environment..church, Sunday school, the whole shebang.

So they weren't really religious at all were they? I don't think the Christian scripture allows for 'nominally', in fact it requires it's followers to evangelise and spread the Gospel, you should familiarise yourself with Matthew 28:19.

Of course you were because your parents were ambivalent about religion!

Nor is it the position anywhere where people adhere to a religious code.

 

You've proved my point completely. You were indoctrinated in a reigion by your parents and cannot grasp the concept that this isn't universal. My parents were C of E but I wasn't forced to go to Sunday school. Very few people are. And its all very well you quoting numbers of verses from the Bible. They have no meaning to most people.

I don't know a single person who has felt required to go out spreading the gospel. Have you even considered that it is you that is out of step and not everyone else?

[johncocker]

The book that contradicts itself, and can be interpreted in different ways by different people. The Quran does offer a place in Paradise for martyrs who die defending their faith. It's this belief that gives suicide bombers the conviction to put on dynamite underpants.

 

Anyone who attempts to label all muslims as killers is silly, because they aren't. You've gone the other way and cleansed all of Islam as peaceful and that none of them are killers, which is equally as silly.

 

It's a religion. People will take the bits out that they like and dislike.

 

 

exscuse me but where in the quran does it state a jihadist can overdress in a gay bar'

for gods sake get your facts right before you start mouthing off

[boyfriday]

You've proved my point completely. You were indoctrinated in a reigion by your parents and cannot grasp the concept that this isn't universal.

I haven't made any comment on my religious upbringing whatsoever.

My parents were C of E but I wasn't forced to go to Sunday school. Very few people are. And its all very well you quoting numbers of verses from the Bible. They have no meaning to most people.

oh I get it now, you're trolling! They would certainly have meaning to a real Christian.

 

You said your parents were 'notionally' CofE, that translates as them picking and choosing the bits that weren't too much hassle to follow, they're therefore hardly likely to impress upon their children the Christian message when they'd prefer to be watching Blue Peter or Magpie.

I don't know a single person who has felt required to go out spreading the gospel. Have you even considered that it is you that is out of step and not everyone else?

Well I'm an avowed atheist and that seems to be the most common view held in this country.