DaFoot Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That would be the perfect solution, unfortunately religion is holding us back from doing that. A lot of people seem to think god doesn't want them to pre stun the animal. Also: Dafoot, that's where religion comes into it. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The title of this and the BBC article is slightly misleading because halal/kosher/unstunned slaughter would still be permitted under the new law, but only if they can demonstrate it doesn't cause more suffering for the animals compared to stunned slaughter. The law in one move seems to have put the advocates for unstunned religious slaughter into checkmate. Isn't is strange how the advocates of unstunned religious slaughter always claim it's better for the animal, that they're dead as soon as the cut is made, etc. but now they're forced to show evidence they cry foul, and call it a de facto ban? QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Muslims worldwide are still a minority. What do you mean by repurcussions - suicide bombings of non-Halal fast food joints? Sorry I meant the majority of Muslims and by repercussions I mean in what ever way they see fit as punishment. They're not averse to fanaticism of any description but I was thinking more along the diplomatic lines rather than a viloent or murderous reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Or they could allow people the choice by advertising that the meat is i.e. Halal Presumably there must be a degree of publicity that the food is Halal, otherwise the local Muslims would never know that it is "safe" for them to eat there. Also, we wouldn't be in a position to discuss it. Am I right in thinking that in areas in the UK with a high Jewish population that they have had Kosher restaurants for years. If I understand correctly there are at least 2 (for all I know, maybe more) different Jewish organisations which certify food as Kosher. Keen adherents will only eat food approved by "their" organisation. Are there different Muslim certifiers also, or is it just one Halal system? I don't know if Muslims will eat Kosher and Jews eat Halal. I suspect, like most issues, it will vary from person to person, on just how strict they are in their observances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFoot Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Not wishing animals to go through pain and suffering that is avoidable is nothing to do with religion, its our responsibility as human beings to ensure our food is treated with the utmost respect and slaughtered in the least painful method to hand. Halal and Kosher is no different to the rest of the food chain until slaughter. Isn't that what I said? It's what I meant anyway stun halal and kosher and this objection can be averted. Keep putting animals through the suffering and people will always oppose such methods. We are back to what I asked earlier about knowing that Halal/Kosher etc are more cruel than standard UK abattoir practices (and plenty of our meat comes from abroad where practices may not be the same as UK abattoirs). I have not visited an abattoir nor witnessed a Halal/Kosher killing except those presented online. Of course such online information will always be the best/worst of each because the person(s) posting it will want to show the best/worst of each to give credence to their own stand point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Presumably there must be a degree of publicity that the food is Halal, otherwise the local Muslims would never know that it is "safe" for them to eat there. Also, we wouldn't be in a position to discuss it. That makes sense. I don't frequent KFC or Nando's or Subway for that matter so I couldn't comment, as for hospitals, if it is the case, i don't recall being asked on my last stay but it's also possible that they identified my beliefs from another source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFoot Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Some reading on slaughter: http://www.makeupyourownmind.co.uk/reports/jane-eyres--visit-to-an-abattoir.html http://www.cookingfairy.co.uk/2011/05/what-really-happens-in-an-abattoir/ http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/08/into-the-abattoir-meat-eating http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/slaughter/index.htm - some facts and figures that, if accurate, make for interesting reading re "is Halal cruel?" question. http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/FactoryFarm/Slaughter/Visit2Slaughterhouse.htm No doubt readers will form own ideas on which are reliable and which are propaganda either way on the cruelty aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccsux Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I would imagine not why do you ask? Because they killed animals, and it was completely natural. We have become unnatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) That would be the perfect solution, unfortunately religion is holding us back from doing that. A lot of people seem to think god doesn't want them to pre stun the animal. Also: Dafoot, that's where religion comes into it. Well, that can't be right can it? I can (sort of) understand that religion could dictate how an animal should be killed. If it has to die by having its throat cut, so be it (although I don't understand why in this day and age). I guess this is due to books written a long time ago by people who knew nothing of anaesthetics ... when all animals, irrespective of religion, were killed in the same way. This obviously causes severe trauma to the animal ... totally unnecessary nowadays as medicine has come along in leaps and bounds since then. It's perfectly possible (and straightforward) to kill an animal by slitting its throat and allowing it to bleed to death with no suffering by using anaesthesia. I can see no way anyone could object to this unless they were just plain barbaric, as it still adheres to their beliefs ... a live animal bleeds to death. If you were told that you were going to be put to death by having your throat cut, would you go for the 'rendered unconscious by a small injection first' option ... or go for the 'thrashing about in total panic as your life slowly drains away' option ? ... bit of a non-starter really isn't it unless you're into voyeurism and sadism. Edited November 7, 2011 by Alcoblog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 We are back to what I asked earlier about knowing that Halal/Kosher etc are more cruel than standard UK abattoir practices (and plenty of our meat comes from abroad where practices may not be the same as UK abattoirs). Personally I have no experience of either other then what I have seen on TV, and this is very limited. But we do, in our daily lives, accept advice from people in the know as so to speak, and The Farm Animal Welfare Council, which is now part of DEFRA said: "the way Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals" back in 2003. Vets have also called for both Kosher and Halal to be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts