Todays educational standards

[Hots on]

Good post that, sues budgie, well said.

[sues_budgie]

For all the older people who knock todays students, answer the following questions

 

1) would you have been happy to spend many years doing a degree/in education just to get a job that may pay the bills.

 

2) would you be happy to return to a system that favoured only the very best? by that I mean Grammer Schools, with this system money does not count, only ability

 

I believe that option 2 would threaten the liberal elite, and option 1 would not be very favourable to the older generation - if that was their only way to get a decent job, with decent terms/condition

[Lady Star]

For all the older people who knock todays students, answer the following questions

 

1) would you have been happy to spend many years doing a degree/in education just to get a job that may pay the bills.

 

2) would you be happy to return to a system that favoured only the very best? by that I mean Grammer Schools, with this system money does not count, only ability

 

I believe that option 2 would threaten the liberal elite, and option 1 would not be very favourable to the older generation - if that was their only way to get a decent job, with decent terms/condition

 

When you say 'older' I take it you mean from the baby boomer generation? People now in their early 40's took degrees just to secure that call centre grinder of a job...

 

I would have rather been in the 2nd system - I still recall loads of HND students tearing the halls I lived in up, as when I went to uni HND students were no longer on day release, as they didn't have a job to go to...

[1978]

Grammar (please note it's GRAMMAR, not grammer) schools were neither the main problem then, nor are they the solution today.

 

However, primary education is where everything starts, and that's where things get off track, often never to get back on.

 

The 'best' primaries always did well, and their pupils tended to dominate in those grammar schools. Why? Because they were largely sited in the better off suburbs where parents encouraged their children, and mostly worked in better paid jobs. Even the children from the less well off neighbourhoods tended to come from families with at least one working parent, and often had working siblings. If they got to grammar school they tended to appreciate it, and those who didn't would expect to get apprenticeships and take night school courses. A work ethic was assumed.

 

Sadly, the welfare state has developed in such a way as to create a non-working class that sees benefits as a right, and work as a wrong! Down the generations too many children are growing up without any expectation to work, and every intention to learn only the best way to scrounge off the system. Inevitable animal cunning, I'm afraid. I'll avoid lives of crime for now.

 

In too many cases our classrooms are dominated by children who get minimal parental encouragement to learn. That's compounded in many schools where teachers struggle to make themselves understood due to the many first languages spoken.

 

Teachers have to teach according to far more rigid standards than were probably prevalent when many of us were educated. It's not their fault that the 'one size suits all' doesn't always suit every class. It's a miracle many young people do achieve what they do.

 

Examinations and league tables? We all know they are manipulated, and they always were to some extent. Back in the 1960's my school changed from the Durham examination board to London, and I'd bet it was because the subjects were in some way easier to teach to get good passes! We also thoroughly worked through past papers of selected areas rather than spending more time learning more of the syllabus. The bookies approach to exams - "this one's come up every year so there's bound to be a question."

 

BUT, we were attentive. At primary level we started in classes of 50+. We obeyed the teacher. No classroom assistants then.

 

At grammar school old photos show classes of 31-33. Discipline was usually no problem - but for French, when even we grammar school lads behaved as badly as some of the worst today. Why? Because the teachers were fresh out of college, unsure of their subject, lacking life experience, afraid and unable to discipline. We duly failed our French O Levels and many of us failed to enter University as a result - a modern language at O Level was then an essential entry requirement at all but Hull and Leicester.

 

Society has changed. We can't go back, but some of the basics from 50 years ago weren't wrong and are still applied in the better schools - too many of which are now in the private sector!

[venetodavid]

parents were more responsible in the past...

Education standards were maybe not better

 

I know what you are getting at but doesn't this contradict what you were saying earlier?

[BettyBooHoo!]

I know what you are getting at but doesn't this contradict what you were saying earlier?

 

It would do if the opportunitites available to young people today were not better than they were yester year. It's all about the change in attitudes over the years and the increase in people who are happy to go through life taking without giving.

What i'm trying to say is that if the people of times gone by had the same opportunities as the kids of today, then I think standards would have been better (if that makes sense!).

[venetodavid]

if the people of times gone by had the same opportunities as the kids of today, then I think standards would have been better (if that makes sense!).

 

I suppose it depends on what times you are referring to. In the not so distant past young people got free university places and grants to go there; now they have to pay fees and get into debt. During the sixties there was full employment; now young people face mass unemployment. At one stage, nationalised utilities didn't have to con their customers in order to make profits; now firms try to squeeze every penny out of us whilst giving huge payments to their bosses. In times gone by you could get a loan from a building society and buy a house; now the banks are less keen to help you out but pay their bosses millions in bonuses. My parents had it hard in the war and the fifties, but after that there was full-employment, proper contracts in the workplace and the hope of a pension; the NHS was a source of pride and ordinary people could either save up to buy a house of find council accomodation. I don't think young people have those opportunities to look forward to any more.

[BettyBooHoo!]

I suppose it depends on what times you are referring to. In the not so distant past young people got free university places and grants to go there; now they have to pay fees and get into debt. During the sixties there was full employment; now young people face mass unemployment. At one stage, nationalised utilities didn't have to con their customers in order to make profits; now firms try to squeeze every penny out of us whilst giving huge payments to their bosses. In times gone by you could get a loan from a building society and buy a house; now the banks are less keen to help you out but pay their bosses millions in bonuses. My parents had it hard in the war and the fifties, but after that there was full-employment, proper contracts in the workplace and the hope of a pension; the NHS was a source of pride and ordinary people could either save up to buy a house of find council accomodation. I don't think young people have those opportunities to look forward to any more.

 

I'm just refering to educational opportunities available now verses say 50 - 60 years ago and the attitudes of children and their families then verses now. Employment opportunities at the moment are dire.

[venetodavid]

I'm just refering to educational opportunities available now verses say 50 - 60 years ago and the attitudes of children and their families then verses now. Employment opportunities at the moment are dire.

 

Yes, and it's horrible that you have to have a degree for so many things and then they make it so hard for you to get a degree. I'm one of the lucky ones; I get to do it all online. There's no way I could afford it otherwise.

[Mecky]

And now more people attained a better level of education and are able to question government policies. That will never do will it? Better get rid of them.