Would a nice god allow bad things to happen?

[DaFoot]

You can't truly understand evolution if you believe in god.

 

MAN HAS EXISTED FOR LESS THAN 1% OF OUR PLANETS LIFE. WITHOUT MAN THERE IS NO GOD. GOD HAS EXISTED FOR LESS THAN 250,000 YEARS, OUR PLANET HAS EXISTED FOR MORE THAN 4500 MILLION YEARS.

 

Maybe it is equally possible you don't understand religious beliefs?

 

I wont bother with the rest as we all know where this thread is going to end up....

[Bloomdido]

Maybe it is equally possible you don't understand religious beliefs?

 

What is there to understand about them? You need belief because there is no evidence to support your god.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Ms Macbeth
fixed quotes

[carosio]

 

My point here really says that anyone who claims to believe in evolution and god must enjoy the cruelty god insists most unconscious animals inflict on one another.

 

You can't truly understand evolution if you believe in god. The two can't go hand in hand. Evolution contradicts ALL religious [man made] scripture.

 

I agree with much of what you say, however the animal (or insect) kingdom is not cruel. Cruelty is to cause suffering deliberately for the sake of it.

 

I think one can be both a theist and evolutionist, but not necessarily accepting the mainstream religious texts.

[DaFoot]

Maybe it is equally possible you don't understand religious beliefs?

 

What is there to understand about them? You need belief because there is no evidence to support your god.

 

That is exactly my point. The OP says God doesn't exist because he doesn't exist. He is applying the rules of his belief - everything requires evidence. While that holds up to his reasoning it cannot be compared equally (that is NOT saying one is superior or not...) to a system based purely on belief.

 

For example - in the OP there is some reasoning to suggest God has only existed for a relatively short period time because he/she/it is a man made construct therefore can only have existed as long as man.

 

I think most religious systems say their God(s) are essentially infinite. That is there belief. It is the OPs belief that gods are solely a man made construct and do not exist so he applies the logic they only existed as long as Man.

 

To someone that requires hard evidence/refuses to accept any presented evidence of course God does not exist.

 

The believer who has accepted the existence of God he either requires no evidence so or has accepted the evidence he has been presented with.

 

Comparing one to the other is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

All of which is my own opinion based on my own interpretation of reasoning/evidence etc etc etc

[KamalJoe]

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new students to stand and…

 

Prof: So you believe in God??

 

Student: Absolutely, sir.

 

Prof: Is God good?

 

Student: Sure

 

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn’t. How is this God good then?

Hmm?

 

(Student is silent)

 

Prof: You can’t answer, can you? Let’s start again, young fellow. Is God good?

 

Student: Yes

 

Prof: Is Satan good?

 

Student: No

 

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

 

Student: From…God

 

Prof: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

 

Student:Yes

 

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything. Correct?

 

Student: Yes

 

Prof: So who created evil?

 

(Student does not answer)

 

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

 

Student: Yes, sir

 

Prof: So who created them?

 

(Student has no answer)

 

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you.

Tell me, son…Have you ever seen God?

 

Student: No, sir.

 

Prof: Tell us you have ever heard your God?

 

Student: No ,sir.

 

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

 

Student: No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

 

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

 

Student: Yes

 

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn’t exist.

 

What do you say to that, son?

 

Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

 

Prof: Yes, Faith. And that is the problem science has.

 

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

 

Prof: Yes.

 

Student: And is there such thing as cold?

 

Prof: Yes

 

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

 

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, megaheat, white heat , a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat , but we cant go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat .We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat , sir, just the absence of it.

 

(There is a pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre)

 

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

 

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

 

 

Student: You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something .You can have low light, normal light, bright light , flashing light…But if you have no light constantly , you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

 

Prof: So what is the point you’re making, young man?'

 

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

 

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

 

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: Just the absence of it.

Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your student that they evolved from monkey?

 

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course , I do.

 

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your OWN eyes, sir?

 

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going)

 

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

 

(The class is in uproar)

 

Student: Is there anyone in this class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

 

(The class breaks out into laughter)

 

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so .So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol , science says that you have no brain, sir.

With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

 

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

 

Prof:I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

 

Student: That is it sir…The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps us moving & alive.

Edited October 20, 2009 by KamalJoe

[Kthebean]

You dont just have to trust that the professor has a brain though. You could smash his head open and see it for yourself

[Zomoniac]

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor

 

Everyone has observed the process of evolution at work. Not necessarily by natural selection, as nobody has been alive for long enough, but evolution itself? Certainly. Contrary to the Christian claim, evolution isn't "just a theory", it's 100% proven, blindingly obvious and visible every day. Natural selection isn't proven, but widely accepted, but that isn't the statement made in the above quote.

 

When an interracial couple have a child with a skin tone at a midway shade, that is evolution at its most basic. Most breeds of dog, varied as they are, are man-made through artificial evolution. If you read the news you will see designer pets, dogs and cats bred to look like tigers, orange with black stripes. Ten years ago, such a breed didn't exist. But by selectively breeding enough times, over time you can change pretty much anything into anything else. And that is evolution, making one species from another, and we do it at will with all domesticated and farm animals to best adapt them for our needs.

[chem1st]

Evolution of languages, microscopic living organisms such as viruses and technology are visible for all to see.

[chem1st]

Kamal's copy and paste job shall be ripped to shreds by plekanhov...

[flamingjimmy]

<snip made up story>

 

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor

Yes they can, and yes they have. There are a great many examples of this, go read a book for darwins' sake!

 

 

<snip more of made up story>

 

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so .So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol , science says that you have no brain, sir.

If you buy that as a sound argument, then I guess there's no helping you!