Chemical Castration In Dogs

[emnmax 10]

My dog (he is a Dogue De Bordeux) has recently developed agressive behaviour to other (entire) male dogs and whilst I am trying to address the problem through training I am also considering having him castrated. I don't want to put him through this operation unnecessarily (he has never shown any interest in girls even when one owner forgot to tell me their bitch he was playing with was in heat!!) so considering having him chemically castrated first. If it works then he can have the op.

 

If it isn't his homrones that are the problem then its my training and I may be back asking for recommended dog behaviourist as he already goes dog training!

 

Back to the chemical castration, has anyone had this done and if so what was your experience?

 

Finally does anyone know the rough price. I have phoned my vets to book an appointment and asked them but the receptionist didn't have a clue and wasn't prepared to find out told me the vet would tell me when I came in!! I know time to change vets.

[puddinburner 10]

Don't really know but usually castration just calm's them down, it does'nt tackle any mental issues he may have.

Was thinking he may see other dog's as a threat to you...his owner or to his own male pride?

I would def see a behaviour expert first, to see if his can resolve, then if everything else fails only then concider the castration issue?

Seems a very harsh thing to do if he is Dogue De Bordeux, as they are rare are they not?

 

Using him as a stud will be a gold mine surely and may get rid of some of his frustration, then again it may make him worse?

 

If your already going to training classes, then he IS well socialised in meeting other dog's?

 

When does the agression thing happen? Is it when he's with you on a lead or is it when he's running free? My bitch is a little funny with other dog's while on lead given a chance...but this is overcome by a quick check on the lead and a reminder to leave in a firm voice from me, then we just walk on by, she ignores..end of. If the other dog wants to come and say hello, then they can with no further problem.....seem's like if she know's it's okay by me and the other dog is not deemed as a threat she's fine.

 

Sorry keep adding on to this...maybe he's mis-reading the other dog's signals, cos some will walk up really stiff, hackles raised, because your dog is bigger than they are, so they feel threatened, if this is the case he just needs a reminder...you...telling him yes I'm here and I'm watching you, so don't you dare! The other dog will then relax his body language and say hello in a polite dog fashion.

 

I guess if your dog feels, you are uptight in meeting others at a hundred paces, then he'll pick this up and turn the agression thing on to protect you? Does this make sense?

 

I'll bet he even know's what your thinking now...and is crossing his leg's in terror, oooooh anything but that, pleeeeese!

[Lotti 10]

Castration could help you train him by removing those hormones, however - chemical castration doesn't always give the same results as surgical castration so it may not give you the right idea.

 

I haven't had personal experience of it but a friend of mine tried her dog with the chemical castration and he was very subdued, even depressed, very quiet and not himself at all.

Eventually, due to more problems she did have him surgically castrated anyway and he is nothing like he was with the chemical castration!

 

Please never punish your dog for aggressive behaviour - that itself will make it worse, it'll work for the short term but in the long term it doesn't help your dog learn that there is nothing to be aggressive about.

 

Sorry I can't be more help - tbh, I've recently been speaking to other dog trainers about neutering and don't feel in any position to give advice right now! Still trying to learn more about it myself!

Whilst it's likely to be hormones due to him being aggressive with entire males, neutering has been linked with making them less confident/more nervous so I don't really want to advise you.

 

Why not pick up the phone to a behaviourist and ask their advice? Vets will just tell you to have him done because of the physical benefits, a behaviourist will look at the mental effect.

[Lotti 10]

Using him as a stud will be a gold mine surely and may get rid of some of his frustration, then again it may make him worse?

 

Puddinburner please tell me you're kidding!!!

[puddinburner 10]

Puddinburner please tell me you're kidding!!!

 

 

Yes was:hihi: Poor thing does'nt want his nuts cracked if there is a logical kinder solution? Neither would he like to be dopped up and depressed, if that's what chemical castration does? That's aweful.

Q 1: Do you ever intend to use him for breeding?

Q 2: Is it a personal issue, to the dog himself, or is he picking sign's up from other dog's or yourself.

Q 3: can this issue be solved, in anyother way?

 

If the answer is NO to all, then, as Lotti said, if he's finished growing and developing, then this would probably the kindest cut and no he will not miss them..lol.

Do agree though, if it is an agressive streak in the gene's then maybe this would be for the best and actually punishing a dog for this behaviour WILL make him worse, no doubt, as he will pick up the agression from you and may even turn his own agression on you.

 

My dog has alway's responded to praise, when good but also my own mood/ tone of voice certain body language, if I'm uptight and tense then so is she, I have NEVER EVER had to resort to cruelty and never will...it's all about state of mind and truely understanding your dog.

Come to think of it, she's never even had a choke chain on, cos I think that's cruel, she has very long fur and it would cause lot's of pain as well as a bald neck.

The quick check on the lead, was exactly that, a quick short tug...Not a full blown..."come her you little Arrrgh, cos I'm going to strangle you" She's never ever need anything like that, cos she's a good dog....that's before anyone else gets the wrong message..lol

[Lotti 10]

It's very important that owners know that dogs don't miss their balls (just if anyone's reading that is concerned by this) once they've gone, they've gone. It's no big deal.

 

It is worth asking the question that the OP has asked because once you've had them removed you can't go back and neutering does have it's behavioural side effects - particularly depending on the age of the dog (and if the dog is young it can affect their physical development as well).

 

If you can get the relevant advice from an expert who can tell you if neutering is likely to remove the hormones making dealing with the aggression easier, then it's well worth doing.

 

How old is he emnmax?

[emnmax 10]

Sorry he is definately no gold mine he is very small for his breed and hasn't got a clue what its for (and I am not teaching him!!).

 

He was well socialised at training classes until he started getting aggressive now I tend to only socialise him with bitches and dogs I know he likes (they are all neuted).

 

He seems to be ok on the lead 99% of the time and if he does go I check him and he stops. Its off the lead when he thinks I am not controling him that he has the problem. By that I mean if I am working him and have him walking to heal he will walk past another dog and ignore it even though he has issues with that dog. But if we are playing and that same dog comes into the park then its a different story. Mostly I can recall him but other times (and they seem to be increasing) he just stops listening.

 

He doesn't rush in and attack, he squares up to them wagging his tail and sometimes he is fine, sometimes he attacks and sometimes he tries to play and gets attacked (but if that happens now he always fights back whereas he used to run back to me for protection).

 

I can't see what the trigger is I just know when its going to happen by his body language changing. Now if I see another dog I panic and try and grab him which I know is making it worse. I have tried not letting him off but as I have a have a small garden there is not enough room for him to play in it and he gets frustrated with just walking not playing frisbee or ball. I even tried running with him but he kept sitting down and I kept falling over!! Hence I have tried to make sure he is well trained so he can be let off and up until he turned 2 he was fine! Oh he is now just over 2 and half.

 

I have been told by our trainers its because he doesn't see me as the pack leader, he sees me as his bitch, and we are trying to address this (I admit I spolit him when he was younger as I have only owned bitches before and didn't realise males are so different). So he is now sleeping on his bed not on mine, sitting on his bed not the sofa and eating after me etc but no change yet.

 

When he does attack a dog I do usually tell him off, put him on the lead and leave the park to teach him. I am guessing by your replies this is wrong?

 

I guess I had better contact a behavourist before getting him neutered, as otherwise his personality is great. Do either of you have any recomendations?

 

I think it is clear I am part, if not all of the problem, especially as he doesn't seem to do it if he is being walked by a man.

[Lotti 10]

emnmax,

 

The only problem with punishing aggressive behaviour is that it can be the stimulus (ie. the other dog) not the behaviour that becomes associated with the punishment - or worse, it can be you that he associates with the punishment.

 

That said, whilst I do some one to one work, I would not like to make guesses at this situation and would rather advise you to see a behaviourist.

I'm not sure of behaviourists to see, someone suggest Phil Jackson the other day - but I have no experience of him personally.

I would suggest getting in touch with Val Strong and seeing if either, she can help you or can suggest someone who can:

0114 2684962, mob 07800538161

email: [email protected]

 

If you don't have any joy from Val, get in touch with me and I'll ask the APDT forum for suggestions of local behaviourists.

[SpeedDemon 10]

Phil Jackson comes highly recommended by our family

[puddinburner 10]

Sound's like she's doing everything humanly possible, have you tried the long lead? You still have control of the situation yet he get's the freedom to run.

Sound's like the naughty teenage stage to me?

There's no point in breeding with him, so the castration would be an option here but NOT sure if this will solve. Then again if the chemical thing does what what previously said, it will only dope him up etc...not good.

Give this Phil a ring, I'll bet you he'll solve in one short visit...Good Luck!

 

AND NO I'm NOT going to mention the mounting method either, got into mega wrong conclussions regarding that one last time but seriously all it involves is standing behind your dog and applying firm pressure on his shoulders, this way he will see you as Leader...lol

Bet folk had vision's of me doing naughty rude things to my dog on that one.

Errrr NO, sorry to disappoint...only had to use this once on a BIG GSD who was getting too big for his boot's and it worked..lol, very simple, no fuss, no cruelty.

Ask your dog behaviourist.

[emnmax 10]

Does anyone have contact details for Phil Jackson?

[Schiann 10]

He seems to be ok on the lead 99% of the time and if he does go I check him and he stops. Its off the lead when he thinks I am not controling him that he has the problem. By that I mean if I am working him and have him walking to heal he will walk past another dog and ignore it even though he has issues with that dog. But if we are playing and that same dog comes into the park then its a different story. Mostly I can recall him but other times (and they seem to be increasing) he just stops listening.

 

I find this part very telling. He's fine when you are actively exercising your role as pack leader, it sounds.

 

Does the aggression only seem to happen when you are playing? Are there toys involved?