The interminable God does/doesn't exist megathread

[pk014b7161 11]

or in the name of democracy, communism, liberation, freedom, equality, human rights etc etc.

people will ALWAYS find a slogan for fighting their wars.

 

Z

i must agree

[DaFoot 10]

With religion being constantly blamed for war on this forum and cited as a reason religion is a *bad thing*, I was wondering if it genuinely does cause more war than other reasons (like peoples greed, national security ...).

 

A fair few wars (eg. Northern Ireland) are cited as being a result of religion where in fact it is often just a convenient way of labeling the 'sides' rather than the conflict having been caused by religion.

 

So I thought - lets compile a list of wars that were/were not caused by religion or had religion as a primary contributing factor.

 

Add names of wars to the thread with thought about what caused them and I'll edit the list in this post as we go.

 

Let's try and keep it civil

 

STOP!

Before you go off on one about religion ( ), I am genuinely interested in doing this so please can we avoid the pro/anti religion type arguments that crop on on so many forums? Let's try and remain impartial eh?

 

Religion was a big/main factor in causing:

• Crusades - 1095–1291 sanctioned by the Pope to reclaim Holy Land. While many fighters on a personal level were fighting for wealth/glory, the declared cause largely religious
  

 

Religion was a minor or non-factor in causing:

• WW1 - care to fill in details on cause for me? pretty sure it wasn't a religious thing anyway
  
• WW2 - economic depression, Germany throwing it's weight about
  
• American War of Independence
  
• Falklands - Argie invasion of British owned Islands
  
• Russian Revolution - Peasants revolt against ruling Tsars
  
• Vietnam - USA/Russia test each other a bit during Cold War
  
• Gulf war 1 + 2 - USA led regime change and/or securing of oil supplies. 'Liberation of Kuwait' from Iraqi's. Search for WMD.
  
• Afganistan - US led invasion early 21st century. Al Queda [sp?] hunt post attack on World Trade Centre
  
• Northern Ireland - Irish not liking English occupiers, Protestant/Catholic divide is convinient rather than causing factor
  
• Napoleonic wars
  
• Rwanda - late 20th century, Tutsis vs Hutu, economic/ethinic/tribal causes
  
• Darfur 2003+ ethnic/tribal causes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
  

 

Unsure / to be discussed:

• Yugoslavia in 1990s - ethnicity, possibly some religious influence
  
• Skirmishing around Gaza strip - Dispute over territory - due to religious significance of land?
  
• 30 years war in Europe - religious cause?
  
• English Civil War - religion or democracy?
  
• Korean war(s) during 1900s
  
• French civil war
  
• Spanish civil war
  
• Iran-Iraq War (aka First Persian Gulf War) in the 1980s, certainly some religious influence here I think. Main factor?
  

[Supertramp 10]

With religion being constantly blamed for war on this forum and cited as a reason religion is a *bad thing*, I was wondering if it genuinely does cause more war than other reasons (like peoples greed, national security ...).

 

A fair few wars (eg. Northern Ireland) are cited as being a result of religion where in fact it is often just a convenient way of labeling the 'sides' rather than the conflict having been caused by religion.

 

So I thought - lets compile a list of wars that were/were not caused by religion or had religion as a primary contributing factor.

 

Add names of wars to the thread with thought about what caused them and I'll edit the list in this post as we go.

 

Let's try and keep it civil

 

STOP!

Before you go off on one about religion ( ), I am genuinely interested in doing this so please can we avoid the pro/anti religion type arguments that crop on on so many forums? Let's try and remain impartial eh?

 

Religion was a big/main factor in causing:

Crusades - 1095–1291 sanctioned by the Pope to reclaim Holy Land.

 

Religion was a minor or non-factor in causing:

WW2 - economic depression, Germany throwing it's weight about

Falklands - Argie invasion of British owned Islands

Russian Revolution - Peasants revolt against ruling Tsars

Vietnam - USA/Russia test each other a bit during Cold War

Gulf war 1 + 2 - USA led regime change and/or securing of oil supplies

 

Unsure / to be discussed:

Yugoslavia in 1990s

Skirmishing around Gaza strip - certainly seems to be religious base to it - anyone know the history?

WW1 - only hear because I can't remember causes right now - effected by Russian revolution?

 

Gaza - Jews believe land is theres, given to them by God (Story of Moses etc.

Loads of Jews turned into Christians and then Muslims, Muslims occupied the land for centuries along with Christians.

20th century - Britain helps Arabs defete the Ottoman turks and takes over this part of the middle east and decides to give a large and disproportionate amount of land to the Jews.

Muslims are driven out of their homes and off their land over the decades as rich Jews migrate to Israel.

 

Israel expands settlements over international borders etc. etc.

 

War goes on and isn't likely to stop.

[Heyesey 11]

WW1 had nothing to do with religion. On the other hand, between 1500 and 1900 there were about twenty wars in Europe which were explicitly about religion and nothing else. One of them, the Thirty Years' War, wiped out a large chunk of the population of northern Europe.

 

 

That'd skew your list a bit.

[Supertramp 10]

Sorry, my post was meant to imply that it is more about land rather then religion.

[BasilRathbon 10]

Word War one was actually started by the indie rock band Frank Ferdinand. How they got hold of the time travelling machine, I'll never know.....

[DaFoot 10]

Sorry, my post was meant to imply that it is more about land rather then religion.

 

it's about land...but is the land disputed because of it's religious significance? In which case we should put it in the religious wars group.

[DaFoot 10]

WW1 had nothing to do with religion. On the other hand, between 1500 and 1900 there were about twenty wars in Europe which were explicitly about religion and nothing else. One of them, the Thirty Years' War, wiped out a large chunk of the population of northern Europe.

 

 

That'd skew your list a bit.

 

I'm not too worried about 'skewing' the lists, just doing it for my own curiosity rather than trying to prove/disprove anything.

 

I guess I better go find some more info about European wars!

[Mathom 10]

I'd argue that the Northern Ireland conflict was (is?) more about nationality than religion. The religious background is important to them and you can roughly divide sides on religious lines, but surely they were actually fighting about who was to rule them, Britain or Ireland?

 

How about the English Civil War? Was that about religion or democracy? If you've seen the recent series The Protestant Revolution you might be more inclined to put that down as a very religious based war.

[pk014b7161 11]

religion does cause wars the religion being greed

[Bozo 10]

Word War one was actually started by the indie rock band Frank Ferdinand. How they got hold of the time travelling machine, I'll never know.....

 

Maybe it was bequeathed to them by one of their descendants...

[StarSparkle 10]

Word War one was actually started by the indie rock band Frank Ferdinand. How they got hold of the time travelling machine, I'll never know.....

 

Or even Franz Ferdinand... Bit harsh to blame them though, old bean - possibly more the fault of the bloke who killed them?

 

Or it might have had something to do with the Kaiser Chiefs? Or maybe not

 

StarSparkle