More cuts for the NHS

It can't possibly have anything to do with Brexit because Brexit was going to pump £350 million more a week into the NHS. Or so they said until June 24th;

 

"Ever get the feeling you’ve been had? Yet more, ‘Leave’ campaigners are queuing up to backtrack on that big campaign promise about £350m per week for the NHS."

Aren't we still in EU paying still whatever it is into it?

We haven't left yet so no 350 million or any other number per whatever time frame.

When we leave it will be up to government at that given time to decide and that is exactly what they said. Stop being silly. Money does not appear magically moment vote results are released.

The NHS has been on a downward spiral for years.

 

Along comes brexit

 

Yay something to blame

 

The NHS is a bottomless pit of tax payers money, no accountability. Once upon a time it was a good idea, now it's the biggest corrupt organisation on the planet.

 

Time to get rid.

At the moment nearly 100% of my household income comes from NHS.

And I'll double that. I'll even square that. I have never seen more wasteful organisation.

It goes head to head with Polish ZUS - it is sort of their DWP but rooted deep into communist era.

And NHS would be competing with it for first place in wastefulness and uselessness olympics. Although from what I've heard Canadian Healthcare Could be close or even worse.

Big surprise. Publicly funded system with monopoly is wasteful and self serving.

Whenever any of us needs anything medical related other then emergency we take it private to eastern Europe.

It is cheap - lots cheaper then private healthcare here.

Faster then NHS and sometimes private here.

You get complex and quality service.

Not that long ago British people even took their son for cancer treatment to Prague.

Just google Ashya King if you missed that.

If you need to go for cancer treatment to a country that only achievement is to manufacture two stroke motorcycles in unchanged form for two thirds of a century since last world war there must be something wrong with NHS.

Aren't we still in EU paying still whatever it is into it?

We haven't left yet so no 350 million or any other number per whatever time frame.

When we leave it will be up to government at that given time to decide and that is exactly what they said. Stop being silly. Money does not appear magically moment vote results are released.

 

 

 

At the moment nearly 100% of my household income comes from NHS.

And I'll double that. I'll even square that. I have never seen more wasteful organisation.

It goes head to head with Polish ZUS - it is sort of their DWP but rooted deep into communist era.

And NHS would be competing with it for first place in wastefulness and uselessness olympics. Although from what I've heard Canadian Healthcare Could be close or even worse.

Big surprise. Publicly funded system with monopoly is wasteful and self serving.

Whenever any of us needs anything medical related other then emergency we take it private to eastern Europe.

It is cheap - lots cheaper then private healthcare here.

Faster then NHS and sometimes private here.

You get complex and quality service.

Not that long ago British people even took their son for cancer treatment to Prague.

Just google Ashya King if you missed that.

If you need to go for cancer treatment to a country that only achievement is to manufacture two stroke motorcycles in unchanged form for two thirds of a century since last world war there must be something wrong with NHS.

Can you give us some examples?

And what you would do about it?

Serious question.

I am serious yes. This is a direct quote from the Conservative Manifesto of 1945.

 

"The health services of the country will be made available to all citizens. Everyone will contribute to the cost, and no one will be denied the attention, the treatment or the appliances he requires because he cannot afford them. We propose to create a comprehensive health service covering the whole range of medical treatment from the general practitioner to the specialist, and from the hospital to convalescence and rehabilitation".

That was just tacit acceptance that at the time none of the parties could have resisted the formation of the service. It doesn't mean the Conservatives were instrumental in driving it forward or were somehow the creators of it. Look back to the Beveridge report and the public reaction to it.

Anyway back to the real world and the present time.

The £350m. Where is it in the funding projections moving forward?

That was just tacit acceptance that at the time none of the parties could have resisted the formation of the service. It doesn't mean the Conservatives were instrumental in driving it forward or were somehow the creators of it. Look back to the Beveridge report and the public reaction to it.

 

Anyway back to the real world and the present time.

 

The £350m. Where is it in the funding projections moving forward?

History is the real world. I never claimed the Conservatives were the creators of the NHS, and I said that some version of the NHS was also in the Labour and Lib Dem 1945 manifestos.

I know about the Beveridge Report, I also know how much Ernest Bevin fought against it, and how it was hated by the British Medical Association (who voted 8:1 against it). I think Aneurin Bevan only won some of them round by allowing private beds in hospitals.

I just don't agree with the fanciful idea you often seen thrown about that the Conservative party want to dismantle the NHS (for which there is no evidence).

Back to today. I think the main problems with the NHS are the disastrous use of PFI schemes, the over reliance of massively overpaid locum doctors, and there being far too many pointless and wasteful middle managers.

As for the £350m - I don't think anyone believed that did they? It was widely reported that that figure was incorrect long before the vote.

The NHS has been on a downward spiral for years.

 

Along comes brexit

 

Yay something to blame

 

The NHS is a bottomless pit of tax payers money, no accountability. Once upon a time it was a good idea, now it's the biggest corrupt organisation on the planet.

 

Time to get rid.

The NHS was a good idea at its inception,it's a good idea now, it's a good idea for the futures. The NHS with all its faults is a guarantee of access to healthcare for all. Long may it continue.

---------- Post added 27-08-2016 at 11:54 ----------

No idea...you asked for abuses of the system...I suggested one..are you saying that they aren't a drain on the system?

In my opinion, they are a burden on the system (drunks in A+E -7days a week and not just on Friday). The BMA think that charging a set group for treatment would be unworkable. But charging drunks for treatment at A+E has been floated .

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/charge-drunks-for-ae-care-but-that-might-make-them-angrier-9662417.html

History is the real world. I never claimed the Conservatives were the creators of the NHS, and I said that some version of the NHS was also in the Labour and Lib Dem 1945 manifestos.

 

I know about the Beveridge Report, I also know how much Ernest Bevin fought against it, and how it was hated by the British Medical Association (who voted 8:1 against it). I think Aneurin Bevan only won some of them round by allowing private beds in hospitals.

 

I just don't agree with the fanciful idea you often seen thrown about that the Conservative party want to dismantle the NHS (for which there is no evidence).

 

Back to today. I think the main problems with the NHS are the disastrous use of PFI schemes, the over reliance of massively overpaid locum doctors, and there being far too many pointless and wasteful middle managers.

 

As for the £350m - I don't think anyone believed that did they? It was widely reported that that figure was incorrect long before the vote.

Right so the £350m was a lie and instead of more money for the NHS we are going to get less.

Like I asked earlier do you trust these people?

I don't disagree with your assessment of where some of the problems with the NHS lie but in all honesty I don't think the Tories can be trusted to look after it any more than Labour can.

Right so the £350m was a lie and instead of more money for the NHS we are going to get less.

 

Like I asked earlier do you trust these people?

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of where some of the problems with the NHS lie but in all honesty I don't think the Tories can be trusted to look after it any more than Labour can.

I didn't say the Tories can be trusted any more than Labour, but I don't buy into this idea that they are a lot worse. Some people have weird notions about the dismantling of the NHS, which as far as I can tell are completely unfounded.

As I said, I put a lot of the blame of the current financial crisis within the NHS on PFI deals, which was started under John Major, so I am no way saying that the Conservative Party are blameless.

I do however put a lot of the blame on the Labour Party, who so fervently embraced the idea of PFI schemes that between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements. Indeed as far as I can tell all but one of the PFI agreements was signed by Labour.

The Barts Health Trust cost £1.1billion to build. It will cost the government £7.1billion in repayments under the PFI scheme. That to me seems absolutely scandalous.

I didn't say the Tories can be trusted any more than Labour, but I don't buy into this idea that they are a lot worse. Some people have weird notions about the dismantling of the NHS, which as far as I can tell are completely unfounded.

 

As I said, I put a lot of the blame of the current financial crisis within the NHS on PFI deals, which was started under John Major, so I am no way saying that the Conservative Party are blameless.

 

I do however put a lot of the blame on the Labour Party, who so fervently embraced the idea of PFI schemes that between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements. Indeed as far as I can tell all but one of the PFI agreements was signed by Labour.

 

The Barts Health Trust cost £1.1billion to build. It will cost the government £7.1billion in repayments under the PFI scheme. That to me seems absolutely scandalous.

Totally agree.

PFI was the worst kind of short-termism: something for nothing at the time the governments were in power. They knew they'd be long gone when the chickens came home to roost, leaving others to clear up the mess.

Care homes are another example, with fees now rising to the £1,000 a week mark. Pensioners and their relatives are expected to pay this, for what is a very substandard level of care in many cases.

I didn't say the Tories can be trusted any more than Labour, but I don't buy into this idea that they are a lot worse. Some people have weird notions about the dismantling of the NHS, which as far as I can tell are completely unfounded.

 

As I said, I put a lot of the blame of the current financial crisis within the NHS on PFI deals, which was started under John Major, so I am no way saying that the Conservative Party are blameless.

 

I do however put a lot of the blame on the Labour Party, who so fervently embraced the idea of PFI schemes that between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements. Indeed as far as I can tell all but one of the PFI agreements was signed by Labour.

 

The Barts Health Trust cost £1.1billion to build. It will cost the government £7.1billion in repayments under the PFI scheme. That to me seems absolutely scandalous.

Yet Osborne continued with it under the guise of PF2 which is even worse

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/report-new-pfi-initiative-will-saddle-nhs-trusts-with-worse-debts-than-before-9882892.html

I agree Labour can't be trusted but I don't see anything more promising in the Tories.

What I do see is a whole bunch of them lying about an extra £350m a week for the NHS, admitting the lie as soon as they had duped the public and then the prospect of them walking through the lobbies to vote through cut after cut to the NHS.

When people end up in A/E through alcohol OR drug missuse they should charge them a drying out fee.

When people end up in A/E through alcohol OR drug missuse they should charge them a drying out fee.

Can't argue with that. ....Except....

Where do you draw the line? What about somebody doing something utterly foolhardy and stupid? Then what about dangerous sports? Or smoking.... See where I'm going with this...?

We get BBC south news here and have just seen the leader of NHS southern division finally step down and she has kept her 180k salary and moved to an advisory position,now if she can't do her job how the heck can she be an advisor,:loopy:so now there will be 2 on the salary and will need to get rid of 6 nurses to fund it,you just can't make it up.