Quran and Modern Science - Conflict or Conciliation?

I think you need to go back and read my post Zafar.

 

I am quite aware that Muhammed was illiterate. I said it would have been 'widespread' knowledge, not that Muhammed read it in a library.

Word of mouth and story telling was the main way of communicating in Arabia at that time, (this is were Muhammed got his knowledge of Bible stories from, albeit inaccurate as they were mainly related to him from those belonging to the Nestorian sect - but thats another thread)

 

Anyway, the fact still stands, Muhammed said something in 610ad which had already been discovered in 150ad.

 

If you wish to see that as 'divine revelation' then thats your choice, but I would strongly urge you to not entrust the eternal state of your soul to someone who displayed the clear lack of morals which we have discussed in this thread.

And theres a lot more reason for concern, I assure you.

LOL you're grasping at straws.

Have you actually read on Arab society pre Islam ???????

You think it was full of middle classes sat around having a cup of cha and discussing ancient Greek 'philosophies' ????

There I was thinking that Arabia was seen as a backward backwater which all the regional superpowers ignored.

Z

Do I fully understand and comprehend every aspect of Gods' character?

Of course not.

 

Do you?

Only aspect i need to understand is quoted in the quran that god is the 'lord of the universe' period no one OR thing is placed as equal to god.

Jesus, when He came to earth 'emptied Himself of His Deity' that is why He is also referred to as 'The Son of Man' in one of the Gospels.

This was so He could fulfill His reason for being sent, and that is why He talked to God the Father, referred to God the Father as greater then He etc.

But does bring me to the question who and why did Jesus (uwbp) pray to and what for if he was 'the son of god' as Christians believe.

What about the temptation of Jesus (uwbp) as in the bible?

hard to comprehend that god would be tempted

And please, to all the Muslim posters on here who would seek to mock the crucifixtion of Jesus, I strongly urge you to take heed from what happened to Ahmed Deedat.

As Christians, we are forbidden unlike you, to take personal revenge for insults waged against us or God.

God promises to do that Himself. A point proved in the aforementioned person.

i know i haven't mocked the crucifixtion just dont believe that Jesus (uwpb) died on the cross.

As Zafar has stated number of crusades and what about the spanish inquisition?

easy to forget kaycee i know.

the quran hasn't predicted anything at all, its all vague matching.

depending on how u interpret a specific sentence, u can match it to predict anything, and even if it has predicted events WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN?

if god wants us to believe in him he should have the brains to know how we operate if he's the one who built us, eg. he should give us or show us proof that he exists in order to get us to believe, not predict things in a book.

what if a alien came from another planet and wrote a book predicting the next 1000 years, simply because they are advanced aliens? does that mean he/she/it is god? should we start praying to that instead?

dont tell me about what it has predicted, show me some solid proof that he exists, and if god wants me to believe without solid proof that he exists then he has made a error in his creation.

what about the guy who dreampt that 9/11 would happen? is he jesus due to his prediction ability?

the quran hasn't predicted anything at all, its all vague matching.

 

depending on how u interpret a specific sentence, u can match it to predict anything, and even if it has predicted events WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN?

 

if god wants us to believe in him he should have the brains to know how we operate if he's the one who built us, eg. he should give us or show us proof that he exists in order to get us to believe, not predict things in a book.

 

what if a alien came from another planet and wrote a book predicting the next 1000 years, simply because they are advanced aliens? does that mean he/she/it is god? should we start praying to that instead?

 

dont tell me about what it has predicted, show me some solid proof that he exists, and if god wants me to believe without solid proof that he exists then he has made a error in his creation.

 

what about the guy who dreampt that 9/11 would happen? is he jesus due to his prediction ability?

You seem to have the Quraan confused with Mystic Megs web page.

Its not an Oracle which makes 'predictions'.

Z

i personally dont know, neither care. im just trying to build up my knowledge on the holy books of each religion. (hopefully after ive gathered enough info, i could choose a religion to follow).

 

but i guess as long as you pray it doesnt matter which way you would face if in doubt.

I saw this last night, you might intetrested

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=282105001717383226&q=islam

Search with you pure heart and ask the creator to help you choose the right path.............hope you will succed

THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

This might also be useful in the topic of the Quran and Science.

Jesus, when He came to earth 'emptied Himself of His Deity' that is why He is also referred to as 'The Son of Man' in one of the Gospels.

This was so He could fulfill His reason for being sent, and that is why He talked to God the Father, referred to God the Father as greater then He etc.

 

Do I fully understand and comprehend every aspect of Gods' character?

Of course not.

 

Do you?

Ok so now he’s a man, then why say he’s divine?

I'm not talking about every aspect of Gods character. I'm talking about the Trinity concept, a fundamental believe of Christians if I’m not mistaken.

Why try to explain the trinity concept if to one will understand it or you yourself do not understand? Also the only reference to the Trinity was taken out in the Revised Standard Version as being a forgery (not present in the oldest most authentic scriptures). But then later this reference was reinstated. Why was that?

This reference to the trinity was first said by some Greek.

As Zafar has stated number of crusades and what about the spanish inquisition?

 

easy to forget kaycee i know.

No I haven't forgotten.

As I've stated on here a number of times the big difference is, and the question that needs to be answered here, is do the individuals/groups clearly get their justification to kill from their respective holy texts, or are they merely killing irrespective of and contrary to, their texts?

With the latter, the indivduals need to be brought to account, with the former, the whole religion does.

Buddhists, Hindus, & Christians who commit these kind of atrocities, in the name of their religion ( I specify that, as Hitler for example never commited his crimes in the name of Christianity, but people seem to drag him up as the 'Christian example') are without exception, going against their holy texts.

While Islam on the other hand gives it's followers, not only clear orders but perfect justification to kill the 'Infidels', and promises them eternal 'rewards' for doing so.

That is the difference.

It may surprise you to know, but I would have been killed under the Spanish Inquisition, just because I believe we should all be able to own our own copy of the Bible without needing a priest to interpret it for us, and my holding to the Biblical principle of adult Baptism amongst many things.

 

The same cannot be said of say the Bible. Which is chopped and changed every couple of years and has a list of versions longer than my street.

 

Z

There are many versions of the the Bible Zafar, simply because it has been widely translated out of its original tongue.

Just like there are numerous English versions of the Qur'aan.

Pick up any two Hebrew versions of the Old Testament and they will be the same aswell.

Is that the same Torah that the pharisee's used to blaspheme or the one Jesus defended when he said he had not come to change or alter the law but instead to complete it ?

 

Z

Yes, 'complete' it being the operative word, therefore annulled.

There are three parts to the OT law, The moral, the civil, and the ceremonial.

He upheld the first, whilst fulfilling the latter two.

This can be evidenced in how He dealt with the woman caught in adultry.

He stopped the imminent stoning, but upheld the moral code - "Go away and sin no more..."

We now come to God through His once and for all sacrifice, not the sacrifice of an animal which was nessacery after breaking any of the laws commands.

 

Why try to explain the trinity concept if to one will understand it or you yourself do not understand? Also the only reference to the Trinity was taken out in the Revised Standard Version as being a forgery (not present in the oldest most authentic scriptures). But then later this reference was reinstated. Why was that?

 

This reference to the trinity was first said by some Greek.

I agree with you Rzaa.

The 'word' Trinity just like the 'word' rapture are not in the Bible, they are words given by scholars to explain concepts of certain aspects of Biblical doctrine.

It doesn't mean that the concepts are un-biblical.

There are many versions of the the Bible Zafar, simply because it has been widely translated out of its original tongue.

 

Just like there are numerous English versions of the Qur'aan.

 

Pick up any two Hebrew versions of the Old Testament and they will be the same aswell.

There are translations of the Quran (choice of words), The Bible has many versions.