How prevalent is atheism?

[f0rd]

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of,

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c034.html

 

"The idea that the earth is flat is a modern concoction that reached its peak only after Darwinists tried to discredit the Bible, an American history professor says."[/Quote]

 

This in no way substantiates your claim that

 

“The flat earth society was formed by adherents of Darwinism in some bizarre twist to try and discredit the Bible that speaks about the circle of the earth.”

 

It goes on to say

“The Bible of course teaches the correct shape of the earth. Isaiah 40:22 says God sits above 'the circle of the earth' (the Hebrew word for 'circle' can also mean a 'sphere').[/Quote]

 

First of all the Earth isn’t a circle, it’s an oblique spheroid. Oh and save yourself the time, biblical Hebrew doesn’t have a term for spherical, it gets old, fast.

 

Next, I seriously suggest you consider the poetical exegesis Isaiah is using, unless you want it to hold that people are grass…

 

7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,

because the breath of the LORD blows on them.

Surely the people are grass.

 

Back to the verse you are quoting ;

 

22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,

and its people are like grasshoppers.

He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,

and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

 

Funny, this provides more problems for you, shall we look at Isaiah 11

 

12 He will raise a banner for the nations

and gather the exiles of Israel;

he will assemble the scattered people of Judah

from the four corners of the earth.

 

The obvious contradiction is apparent, circles don’t have four corners.

 

Also, Luke 17:34-36 depicts Christ's Second Coming as happening while some are asleep at night and others are working at day-time activities in the field-an indication of a rotating earth with day and night at the same time.”

 

I suggest you go read the passage again, and look the temporal reference

 

4 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

[Grahame]

This in no way substantiates your claim that

 

“The flat earth society was formed by adherents of Darwinism in some bizarre twist to try and discredit the Bible that speaks about the circle of the earth.”

 

 

 

First of all the Earth isn’t a circle, it’s an oblique spheroid. Oh and save yourself the time, biblical Hebrew doesn’t have a term for spherical, it gets old, fast.

 

Next, I seriously suggest you consider the poetical exegesis Isaiah is using, unless you want it to hold that people are grass…

 

7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,

because the breath of the LORD blows on them.

Surely the people are grass.

 

Back to the verse you are quoting ;

 

22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,

and its people are like grasshoppers.

He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,

and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

 

Funny, this provides more problems for you, shall we look at Isaiah 11

 

12 He will raise a banner for the nations

and gather the exiles of Israel;

he will assemble the scattered people of Judah

from the four corners of the earth.

 

The obvious contradiction is apparent, circles don’t have four corners.

 

 

 

I suggest you go read the passage again, and look the temporal reference

 

4 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

 

Perhaps debating "circles" and "oblique spheroids" should be left for another time, I'm sure the ancients were happy to think the earth was circular and come to that I'm happy to think the globe is circular as well. Your other comments would make an interesting intellectual study as well but on here as I am sure you know we cant get past whether you believe in God.

[f0rd]

Perhaps debating "circles" and "oblique spheroids" should be left for another time, I'm sure the ancients were happy to think the earth was circular and come to that I'm happy to think the globe is circular as well. Your other comments would make an interesting intellectual study as well but on here as I am sure you know we cant get past whether you believe in God.

 

Obfuscation, the fact still remains, scripture doesn't indicate the Earth is a sphere, I hope you do realize a circle is a flat planed object. So presenting the bible says the Earth is a circle is still presenting that it is flat.

 

The translators of the LXX used the word gýros in Isaiah 40:22, which means… round. While in Ancient Greek there is a word for sphere… sphaíra, Yet the translators did not use it.

[f0rd]

Also Grahame, you have failed to back up this assertion.

 

"The flat earth society was formed by adherents of Darwinism in some bizarre twist to try and discredit the Bible that speaks about the circle of the earth."

[plekhanov]

Grahame the flat earth society was founded in 1547 some 250 year before Darwin was born. You couldn't be more wrong on that.

It must have been founded by the same time travelling Darwinists who went even further back in time and hid all those fossils in the rocks just to try and discredit the bible.

[Wildcat]

Grahame the flat earth society was founded in 1547 some 250 year before Darwin was born. You couldn't be more wrong on that.

 

Wikipedia gives the origin for the flat earth society as being a result of Samuel Rowbotham and his booklet "Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe" 1849. So I would be interested in the 1547 pre-dating. I can's see any particular reason why this has anything much to do with Darwinists (apart from roughly the same time) however. I would also have thought any darwinist association would have put off the American Flat earthers : the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church.

 

The Flat earth argument against Christianity is rather a weak one, perhaps less weak than arguing that the bible argues it is a sphere however !

 

A better argument surely is the persecution of Galileo for putting the sun at the center of the universe. It is not really an argument about the bible being wrong more an example of Christianity standing in the way of scientific thought because of dogma.

[Bago]

How is this rambling personal attack supposed to rebut my point that the fact that the immense practical utility of science & mathematics in making planes fly, the internet work, dvd players play… clearly demonstrates that science and mathematics are much much more than just another belief system like all the rest?

 

When somebody develops a faith based internet or mode of air travel you might have a point, till then your previous post will remain relativist nonsense of the silliest sort.

If you always use this petty angle, then what do you expect my response to be? If you respect others, others will respect you, and your answer. Respect and not attack it as silly, as you do to others too! You never did answer the person who actually dissected what you said!

 

I’m a secular liberal so whilst I clearly think that religion (of any sort) shouldn’t be given a privileged role in or by the state I obviously don’t advocate actively repressing religion if that’s what you are trying to suggest.

No, that is not what I asked. I asked a very simple question.

"Do you think that religion has a place in society?"

It is a mere simple yes or no answer.

[plekhanov]

Wikipedia gives the origin for the flat earth society as being a result of Samuel Rowbotham and his booklet "Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe" 1849. So I would be interested in the 1547 pre-dating. I can's see any particular reason why this has anything much to do with Darwinists (apart from roughly the same time) however. I would also have thought any darwinist association would have put off the American Flat earthers : the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church.

1849 is still 10 years before Darwin published The Origin of Species, so it clearly couldn't possibly have been 'formed by adherents of Darwinism' as Grahame claimed.

 

The Flat Earth Society has obviously got nothing to do with Darwin or science the only people who claim otherwise are lying Christian's perfectly willing to bear false witness in desperate attempts to deny obvious truths.

[Wildcat]

Have a read of this and see what you think.

 

http://www.trinityhills.org.au/modules/UpDownload/store_folder/Articles_and_Papers/Alvin_Plantinga_-_Review_of_Richard_Dawkins_-The_God_Delusion.pdf

 

Alvin Platinga is rebutted here

 

Basically his argument doesn't work. His arguments do show that there is a fallibility inherent in inference. But this same falibility applies to every inference made.

 

His grasp on probability is like someone seeing the hand of god in the selection of a lottery winner.

[plekhanov]

If you always use this petty angle, then what do you expect my response to be? If you respect others, others will respect you, and your answer. Respect and not attack it as silly, as you do to others too!

Merely saying your view is silly is giving it far more respect than it deserves.

 

You never did answer the person who actually dissected what you said!

Who was this?

 

No, that is not what I asked. I asked a very simple question.

"Do you think that religion has a place in society?"

It is a mere simple yes or no answer.

It's a rather ambiguous question to which a simple 'yes or no' isn't really adequate, hence my previous response. On the one hand I view religion as a huge problem for humanity and would like to see it eradicated, so ideally religion would have no role in society.

 

However as a liberal I believe that people should have freedom of conscience so I'd obviously oppose any steps to try and ban religion, so in that way I do think that religion has a place in society to the extent that I wouldn't seek to prohibit it.

 

Or as I put it in my previous post 'I’m a secular liberal' it's not my fault if you don't understand such simple language which clearly answered your question.