News: UK nationals abducted in Iraq

[mojoworking]

Originally posted by PopT

By the tone of your comments you seem to imply that 9/11 and the Beslan massacre was ok.

 

Let us not forget that as well as the Uk and the US invading other countries right or wrong both countries provide a lot of these countries with money, food and assistance.

 

The UK and the US are not the enemies of these people as a lot of people would make them appear.

 

I do not read much about the oil rich arab nations giving out much to any of these same countries.

 

That's the impression I got too Pop. It appears that the US and UK are to blame for everything, doesn't it?

[mojoworking]

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW

Doesn't mean squat to you, thats because you probably fall into one of the catagorys below:

 

1. Have never taken the time to read it

2. Believe the tabloid version of Islam

3. Think every muslim is an extremist

 

The point which you have so clearly missed by a greater margin then I could have imagined is thus, my good mojo....

 

You cannot commit these atrocities under the name of Islam. End of. There are no buts, no ifs. If you do this you are considered worse then the enemy which you fight, and you can consider your fate to be the same or worse. Essentially these 'muslim' terrorists are not only terrorising westerners, but also hijackers of the name of Islam.

 

Furthermore, if I went into a church declared myself Christian, put on a cross and went into a mosque and detonated myself, I wouldnt be representative of the Christian people. I would have 'hijacked' the name of Christianity to provoke inter-religion hatred would I not?

 

Hence take these people on FACE value - terrorists. And deal with them in the same way they inflict mindless violence on those innocents.

 

These things can be stopped though. Its not alright to drop bombs on one hand and pump in aid with the other. Thats called hypocrisy, especially when you are killing women, children and other innocents on the opposite side and then say 'collateral damage'.

 

An innocent life taken is an innocent life taken, be it Iraqi, American, British etc. Remember, God doesn't ask for your passport when you get your one way ticket confirmed to go see him.

 

 

No, I don't think every Muslim is an extremist, of course not.

 

But equally, are you saying that those who are committing the acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are not Muslims, or are just pretending to be Muslims? If so, to what purpose?

 

Your logic is a little skewed when you say that "You cannot commit these atrocities under the name of Islam. End of. There are no buts, no ifs". That's simply not true and you know it. Ask the families of the hostages who were so cruelly butchered if you don't believe me.

[max]

Originally posted by mojoworking

But equally, are you saying that those who are committing the acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are not Muslims, or are just pretending to be Muslims? If so, to what purpose?

 

You've got it in one. They are not muslims nor are they followers of Islam. If there is a god, as both Islam and Christianity, among others, claim, then on the death of these terrorists they will not be allowed in to the kingdom of their god. Their excuse of acting in god's name will hold no water come the big interview.

 

Thier purpose in claiming to be adherents of Islam is to justify their actions in their own eyes, no one else's.

 

Do you seriously think Torquemeda and his inquistors would be allowed into a christian god's kingdom despite having tortured and killed across Europe in his name? What about whatshisface, the witch finder general? Killing innocent women in the name of christ, I doubt he'd get past St Peter.

[Ned Ludd]

I think Mojo must be an apologist for Russian atrocities in Chechnya...this is after all the logic of Mojo's own argument in which legitimate critics of Bush and Blair are accused of supporting the beheading of abductees bt Al-Queda sympathisers.

So Mojo, 70% of the adult male population of Chechnya killed by the Russians, approx 35000 kids of school-going age also killed and 10,000's women and girls raped.....all before Beslan and you think that there is no connection? I merely reverse your own argument, as you clearly have no sympathy for the victims of these disgusting war crimes, presumably Putin's actions have your full support?

To draw these facts to your attention (and anyone elses) is not to support the atrocity in the school but to look at what may have provoked such an extreme act.

[mojoworking]

Originally posted by Ned Ludd

I think Mojo must be an apologist for Russian atrocities in Chechnya...this is after all the logic of Mojo's own argument in which legitimate critics of Bush and Blair are accused of supporting the beheading of abductees bt Al-Queda sympathisers.

So Mojo, 70% of the adult male population of Chechnya killed by the Russians, approx 35000 kids of school-going age also killed and 10,000's women and girls raped.....all before Beslan and you think that there is no connection? I merely reverse your own argument, as you clearly have no sympathy for the victims of these disgusting war crimes, presumably Putin's actions have your full support?

To draw these facts to your attention (and anyone elses) is not to support the atrocity in the school but to look at what may have provoked such an extreme act.

 

Nice try Ned, but you obviously haven't thought this through.

 

Nothing justifies the murder of innocent children and you must be very sick to even suggest it.

[1Man&hisBMW]

Originally posted by mojoworking

No, I don't think every Muslim is an extremist, of course not.

 

But equally, are you saying that those who are committing the acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are not Muslims, or are just pretending to be Muslims? If so, to what purpose?

 

Your logic is a little skewed when you say that "You cannot commit these atrocities under the name of Islam. End of. There are no buts, no ifs". That's simply not true and you know it. Ask the families of the hostages who were so cruelly butchered if you don't believe me.

 

Thats EXACTLY what I am saying Mojo. And ask the question, why as I saying it?

 

The answer would read as follows: because the very holy book these people claim to be followers of (remember muslim means one who 'submits to the will of god' which is of course in the holy text of the Kor'an).

 

Now, nowhere in there does it condone these actions, infact to the contrary, you are NOT permitted to kill people in the classifications as mentioned by myself previously, otherwise you are seen as worse then the enemy you are fighting. This is simple fact, not skewed logic or anything else.

 

Now I bring the next question to you, have you asked the families of those people what they think of the British participation in the war? I believe they are not people to judges a book by its cover. You are not muslim if you think these acts are acceptable, that is the top and bottom of it. You cannot do something in the name of god which he himself has forbidden.

Im beginning to wonder now who's logic is skewed.

 

As I mentioned before, these people are terrorists, wating to attract the sympathys of the majority in their host nations. Im glad the majority in this case are trying to repel them to some greater or lesser extent according to their capabilities.

 

From my gathering the families of those British soldiers killed feel they died needlessly. Maybe you can show to the contrary, I would be obliged to see that.

 

On an additional note, has anybody been round doing a door to door check up round on the women and children maimed, injured, and disabled by western bombs in Iraq?

 

Nobody is going to like you much as a country, if you drop bombs on one hand, and food parcels on the other. Its makes NO sense when the basic needs of the people on the street are not being met.

 

The UK Muslim view is simple NOT being projected correctly by this Blairite 'Muslim Council' who the hell elected them anyway? They definately don't speak on my behalf, and its high time people like captain hook and his ilk were locked up for their blatantly blasphemous speeches trying to convince people this kind of thing is okay by God, it isn't and won't ever be.

 

Hope this helps me get my message across

[Greenback]

Originally posted by mojoworking

Nice try Ned, but you obviously haven't thought this through.

 

Nothing justifies the murder of innocent children and you must be very sick to even suggest it.

 

To attempt to explain is not to justify. You must admit, 70% of the male population is a quite staggering figure - the whole situation in that area of the world, as typified by the massacre, is terrible and very, very sad.

[mojoworking]

Originally posted by Greenback

To attempt to explain is not to justify. You must admit, 70% of the male population is a quite staggering figure - the whole situation in that area of the world, as typified by the massacre, is terrible and very, very sad.

 

Yes it is a large figure, but again, it doesn't justify, or even begin to explain how someone could kill so many innocent children.

[t020]

Is Islam the same peaceful religion that instructs via the Ko'ran that:

 

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made them excel and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient. Those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them"

 

- Verse 34, Chapter 4, The Women.

[mojoworking]

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW

Thats EXACTLY what I am saying Mojo. And ask the question, why as I saying it?

 

The answer would read as follows: because the very holy book these people claim to be followers of (remember muslim means one who 'submits to the will of god' which is of course in the holy text of the Kor'an).

 

Now, nowhere in there does it condone these actions, infact to the contrary, you are NOT permitted to kill people in the classifications as mentioned by myself previously, otherwise you are seen as worse then the enemy you are fighting. This is simple fact, not skewed logic or anything else.

 

Now I bring the next question to you, have you asked the families of those people what they think of the British participation in the war? I believe they are not people to judges a book by its cover. You are not muslim if you think these acts are acceptable, that is the top and bottom of it. You cannot do something in the name of god which he himself has forbidden.

Im beginning to wonder now who's logic is skewed.

 

As I mentioned before, these people are terrorists, wating to attract the sympathys of the majority in their host nations. Im glad the majority in this case are trying to repel them to some greater or lesser extent according to their capabilities.

 

From my gathering the families of those British soldiers killed feel they died needlessly. Maybe you can show to the contrary, I would be obliged to see that.

 

On an additional note, has anybody been round doing a door to door check up round on the women and children maimed, injured, and disabled by western bombs in Iraq?

 

Nobody is going to like you much as a country, if you drop bombs on one hand, and food parcels on the other. Its makes NO sense when the basic needs of the people on the street are not being met.

 

The UK Muslim view is simple NOT being projected correctly by this Blairite 'Muslim Council' who the hell elected them anyway? They definately don't speak on my behalf, and its high time people like captain hook and his ilk were locked up for their blatantly blasphemous speeches trying to convince people this kind of thing is okay by God, it isn't and won't ever be.

 

Hope this helps me get my message across

 

Now I'm really confused. So Osama Bin Laden and his ilk are NOT Muslims suddenly, right? Why? Because it suits your anti Bush/Blair rhetoric to say so?

 

If you feel it helps your argument to claim that Osama et al are just godless terrorist thugs and not Islamic flag bearers, so be it.

 

By the way, in case you thought otherwise, I'm with you in opposing the war in Iraq. I felt it was a waste of time from the word go.