PW Botha,gone but not forgotten.

[Halibut 12]

He was jailed for conspiracy to murder, which was entirely justified considering how many bombs he was responsible for. Or do you also consider bin Laden to be merely "opposing the system?" Mandela probably killed more people than he has.

 

I know Mandela was involved in bombing, but I think it highly unlikely that he was responsible for more deaths than Bin Laden. I can see this taking a turn around the 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' argument. The clear difference between Mandela and Botha however is that one of them fought for freedom and social justice and the other presided over a state that was built upon oppression and injustice.

[upholder 10]

"While to many Mr Botha will remain a symbol of apartheid, we also remember him for the steps he took to pave the way towards the eventual peacefully negotiated settlement in our country."

 

First post-apartheid President Nelson Mandela.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6105178.stm

 

At least Nelson Mandela can show a little respect at this time unlike some others on this thread.

[Tricky 10]

Us and the Dutch.

 

You've missed Bantu-speaking tribes off your list.

[Halibut 12]

"While to many Mr Botha will remain a symbol of apartheid, we also remember him for the steps he took to pave the way towards the eventual peacefully negotiated settlement in our country."

 

First post-apartheid President Nelson Mandela.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6105178.stm

 

At least Nelson Mandela can show a little respect at this time unlike some others on this thread.

Mandela is a great statesman and was speaking publicly; his compassion and humanity in extending this sentiment towards Botha is not surprising. Botha was unable to show the same degree of magnaminity and never apologised for the misery he wrought on the people.

[Halibut 12]

 

At least Nelson Mandela can show a little respect at this time unlike some others on this thread.

 

Yes, those who eulogise Botha as a 'great man' are rather insulting to the memory of the tens of thousands who suffered and died during the apartheid years aren't they?

[Tricky 10]

... The clear difference between Mandela and Botha however is that one of them fought for freedom and social justice and the other presided over a state that was built upon oppression and injustice.

 

 

That's a romanticised way of looking at it. My view is they were both fighting for the same thing, power. Once the black population was strong enough to take power away from the white minority, they took it - as it should be.

 

Where Mandela scores so highly is his emphasis on reconcilliation (something that's lacking on here). I don't believe that history will view the ANC's time in power in a positive light and it will be interesting to see if Mandela escapes with his reputation intact.

[Banjo Griner 10]

Interesting quote from the South African press in that article: "Mr Botha was regarded as a relic and someone stuck in a bit of a time warp." - sounds familiar, OP.

 

Roy, it's spelt Afrikaner, not Africaner.

[Plain Talker 11]

and what is wrong with the idea of the indigenous majority actually having a say in the ruling of their own country, pray?

[Heyesey 11]

and what is wrong with the idea of the indigenous majority actually having a say in the ruling of their own country, pray?

 

You'll have to address that question to Royjames, the OP. He's mad keen on the indigenous majority having power in Britain, but he seems strangely hostile to the indigenous majority having power in South Africa.

[Halibut 12]

You'll have to address that question to Royjames, the OP. He's mad keen on the indigenous majority having power in Britain, but he seems strangely hostile to the indigenous majority having power in South Africa.

 

Couldn't be a colour thing could it?

[Heyesey 11]

Couldn't be a colour thing could it?

 

 

He's said many, many times that he is NOT a racist, and has NO interest in what colour someone's skin is, he merely wants the indigenous English people to take priority in England.

 

 

Still waiting for his explanation as to why he doesn't think the indigenous African people should take priority in Africa.

[Halibut 12]

He's said many, many times that he is NOT a racist, and has NO interest in what colour someone's skin is, he merely wants the indigenous English people to take priority in England.

 

 

He has said that, Heyesey, but consistency was never one of his strong points. You may be waiting a while for a reasoned response to your point.