Nett Zero Madness #379 : Wooden Houses Are Potentially Lower Maintenance.

[Chekhov 488]

There is certainly a lot of cobblers promulgated to try and support Nett Zero and how we'll get there (the answer, BTW, is never).

Latest, in The Times this week (but frequently state as "fact"), it was talking about prefabricated houses, built in this case by Greencore :

 

Greencore manufactures timber framed houses that are insulated with natural materials including hemp and wood fibre.

Greencore's homes have the potential to be cheaper to maintain and warm compared with older housing stock.

 

Come again, did you say a wooden house has the potential to be "cheaper to maintain" [than a conventional brick built house with a pitched slate or tiled roof] ? And, as far as I am aware, the wood isn't even hardwood, as that is considered "environmentally unsound".

This really is typical of the sort of cobblers which is just accepted as fact because it helps reach "nett zero".

Brick built houses with pitched slate roofs may well take longer to build and cost more, plus they probably have a higher "carbon footprint" (at build anyway), but they are, without any doubt, easier to maintain (how much maintenance does a brick built house actually need ? ! ? ) and should be around in 100 years, or more. My shop  was built in 1902 and should be good for possibly another century years, unless the government decide it is insufficiently energy efficient and must be demolished.....

[hackey lad 3,991]

36 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

There is certainly a lot of cobblers promulgated to try and support Nett Zero and how we'll get there (the answer, BTW, is never).

Latest, in The Times this week (but frequently state as "fact"), it was talking about prefabricated houses, built in this case by Greencore :

 

Greencore manufactures timber framed houses that are insulated with natural materials including hemp and wood fibre.

Greencore's homes have the potential to be cheaper to maintain and warm compared with older housing stock.

 

Come again, did you say a wooden house has the potential to be "cheaper to maintain" [than a conventional brick built house with a pitched slate or tiled roof] ? And, as far as I am aware, the wood isn't even hardwood, as that is considered "environmentally unsound".

This really is typical of the sort of cobblers which is just accepted as fact because it helps reach "nett zero".

Brick built houses with pitched slate roofs may well take longer to build and cost more, plus they probably have a higher "carbon footprint" (at build anyway), but they are, without any doubt, easier to maintain (how much maintenance does a brick built house actually need ? ! ? ) and should be around in 100 years, or more. My shop  was built in 1902 and should be good for possibly another century years, unless the government decide it is insufficiently energy efficient and must be demolished.....

They've pulled loads of timber framed houses down round here , the brick ones built about 70 years ago are still solid . 

[Prettytom 1,648]

If anyone wants to actually see what the homes are made from, before randomly grumbling, have a look at this:

 

https://greencorehomes.co.uk/what-we-do/

 

They look rather nice to me.

[hackey lad 3,991]

2 minutes ago, Prettytom said:

If anyone wants to actually see what the homes are made from, before randomly grumbling, have a look at this:

 

https://greencorehomes.co.uk/what-we-do/

 

They look rather nice to me.

Vic Hallams did when they first built them . 

[peak4 287]

Unfortunately, I can't immediately find the articles I've read in the past on timber framed housing.
Note that this is a different concept to some of the new eco wooden housing being built.
As I recall conventional newbuilds still don't even come with heat pumps as standard, or appropriate plumbing and radiators; similar with no solar panels, for hot water or electric generation.
I have a friend, a chartered civil engineer, who is regularly involved in new-build housing estate construction and management.
According to him, and backed up by what I'd read, most new build housing stock carries a 10 year warranty, with a projected design life of 30-40 years; 50 if the builder is commissioned to build higher quality homes.

It used to be 60, but apparently that's now been reduced.
Copied below is from a reply I made on a different forum; I'm not sure how it will display, or if the links will work correctly on here.

 

I've just looked around for an article to back up his comments, and dropped on this one about timber frame construction
http://www.brand-newhomes.co.uk/timber-frame-new-homes.htm

"In 2010, one in four new homes is being constructed using timber frame or, to be more accurate timber panel, construction."

And then 
http://www.brand-newhomes.co.uk/considerations-when-buying-a-timber-frame-new-home.htm

"The timber frame itself is normally "guaranteed" by the manufacturer for various periods ranging from 10 to 40 years. It is a commonly perceived opinion within the industry that 25 –30 years is a reasonably expected life span for a softwood timber framed building."

I've no idea about the veracity of either of those links; not my field of expertise.
I wonder if there is another problem looming

[El Cid 221]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Greencore manufactures timber framed houses that are insulated with natural materials including hemp and wood fibre.

Greencore's homes have the potential to be cheaper to maintain and warm compared with older housing stock.

Timber frame houses have been around since the Romans were here, with house prices being so high, I dont see a problem.

But people are sucked in by a media story.

[hackey lad 3,991]

24 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Timber frame houses have been around since the Romans were here, with house prices being so high, I dont see a problem.

But people are sucked in by a media story.

Do you think these will be cheap ? 

[Chekhov 488]

10 hours ago, Prettytom said:

If anyone wants to actually see what the homes are made from, before randomly grumbling, have a look at this:

https://greencorehomes.co.uk/what-we-do/

They look rather nice to me.

They might look rather nice, but there is no way on fantasy island that they'll last as long as a brick built house with pitched slate roof, and they will need far more maintenance. And that is what the article specifically claimed.

I would also point out that since a brick built house will last far longer (and need far less maintenance) than any pre fab, what is their "Carbon footprint" over, say 150 years ?

[Chekhov 488]

9 hours ago, peak4 said:

Unfortunately, I can't immediately find the articles I've read in the past on timber framed housing.
Note that this is a different concept to some of the new eco wooden housing being built.
As I recall conventional newbuilds still don't even come with heat pumps as standard, or appropriate plumbing and radiators; similar with no solar panels, for hot water or electric generation.
I have a friend, a chartered civil engineer, who is regularly involved in new-build housing estate construction and management.
According to him, and backed up by what I'd read, most new build housing stock carries a 10 year warranty, with a projected design life of 30-40 years; 50 if the builder is commissioned to build higher quality homes.

It used to be 60, but apparently that's now been reduced.
Copied below is from a reply I made on a different forum; I'm not sure how it will display, or if the links will work correctly on here.

 

I've just looked around for an article to back up his comments, and dropped on this one about timber frame construction
http://www.brand-newhomes.co.uk/timber-frame-new-homes.htm

"In 2010, one in four new homes is being constructed using timber frame or, to be more accurate timber panel, construction."

And then 
http://www.brand-newhomes.co.uk/considerations-when-buying-a-timber-frame-new-home.htm

"The timber frame itself is normally "guaranteed" by the manufacturer for various periods ranging from 10 to 40 years. It is a commonly perceived opinion within the industry that 25 –30 years is a reasonably expected life span for a softwood timber framed building."

I've no idea about the veracity of either of those links; not my field of expertise.
I wonder if there is another problem looming

>>"The timber frame itself is normally "guaranteed" by the manufacturer for various periods ranging from 10 to 40 years.<<

 

40 years, is that all !

My shop is 120 years old and may well still be up in another century ! !

 

Incidentally, I had a new slate roof put on my shop in the late 90s at which point the original roof was about 95 years old !  To be fair that was Welsh Slate, the best and better than the slates I had put on this time, but when I asked the roofer how long he thought the roof would last he said confidentially said "it'll outlast you". And I was 35 at the time !

[Chekhov 488]

7 hours ago, El Cid said:

Timber frame houses have been around since the Romans were here, with house prices being so high, I dont see a problem.

But people are sucked in by a media story.

Is that using hardwood or soft wood ? And is it a timber frame within a brick built wall ? If so it should never be exposed to the elements. That said I still wouldn't be happy about having one because if you had a leak the frame would get damp / wet. This is even more likely since, in their "wisdom" the powers that be banned the best rot prevention chemicals ! ! Can you even still buy creosote ? I didn't think you could ? And tanalised wood is no where near as long lasting as it used to be because they have banned the most effective treatment chemicals.

[spilldig 190]

17 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

>>"The timber frame itself is normally "guaranteed" by the manufacturer for various periods ranging from 10 to 40 years.<<

 

40 years, is that all !

My shop is 120 years old and may well still be up in another century ! !

 

Incidentally, I had a new slate roof put on my shop in the late 90s at which point the original roof was about 95 years old !  To be fair that was Welsh Slate, the best and better than the slates I had put on this time, but when I asked the roofer how long he thought the roof would last he said confidentially said "it'll outlast you". And I was 35 at the time !

Agreed. Our house was built in 1900 and the Welsh Blue slates are still up there doing the job,

[Padders 2,881]

32 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Is that using hardwood or soft wood ? And is it a timber frame within a brick built wall ? If so it should never be exposed to the elements. That said I still wouldn't be happy about having one because if you had a leak the frame would get damp / wet. This is even more likely since, in their "wisdom" the powers that be banned the best rot prevention chemicals ! ! Can you even still buy creosote ? I didn't think you could ? And tanalised wood is no where near as long lasting as it used to be because they have banned the most effective treatment chemicals.

Them houses on Jacobs Close (Opposite Shiregreen WMC) are all timber framed.

I remember at the time there being some controversy about them being a fire risk.

They must have been there about 50years now, not one has caught fire.. (I don't think)