COVID THREAD

[melthebell 865]

6 minutes ago, sibon said:

I'm not a fan of vaccine passports, but your "basic logic" is badly flawed.

 

Whilst the vaccines don't prevent transmission, they certainly reduce it. They also protect against serious illness.

 

So, basic logic dictates that using vaccine passports at large events will reduce the number of people contacting covid at said events. Any people who do contract covid at the event will be much less likely to require hospital treatment.

 

Basic logic you see. Reduce risks, get better outcomes. 

Don't be silly, they only see the simple

[Annie Bynnol 614]

33 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

It depends how old you are FT. If you are under 40 and healthy you do not really need vaccinating. But if you are over 60 (or 50 if male), esp if you have existing conditions, it is very advisable to get vaccinated. The interesting group is those in the middle which includes me, I thought it wise for me to get jabbed but I have not bothered with the booster. I do not believe it is necessary for the prevention of serious illness (which is what I am bothered about) in the great majority of people. 

 

If someone knows that vaccines do not stop transmission of Covid they cannot rationally support vaccine passports. Basic logic.

What medical skills and qualification do you have that enable/allow you to give critical medical advice?

 

The fact that you  "...do not believe it is necessary for the prevention of serious illness (which is what I am bothered about) in the great majority of people"  is irrelevant. When dealing with a pandemic, a belief is not sufficient.

[RJRB 688]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

That is the direction of travel that has been accelerating over history, Covid has just given it a supercharged boost.

 

And Dave's point is perfectly valid.

 

I really do not understand what you are saying here.

Dave suggested possibly some  draconian measures for self inflicted illnesses so that’s food ,drink and tobacco.What do you and Dave propose?

Covid is not self inflicted unless you completely ignore the guidelines and increase your chances of contracting it.

The Omicron variant was first identified in S.A.at the end of November and Dr Coetzee was considerably more circumspect than you at the time because it was early days and as every should have learnt by now it takes a few weeks to get actual facts.

That is why many countries were announcing  stronger measures to go into the New Year.

So to say that it was obvious to anyone that Omicron was going to be harmless is a ridiculous statement as long as it causes staffing shortages in the NHS and elsewhere.

REMOVE ALL TESTING you will cry and that might happen.

However,it was never going to happen during December because this government has been vilified for late lockdowns,early lifting of restrictions and some of it justified in the light of experience.

So calm down a bit because no matter how effin,bleedin FURIOUS you are  a little more patience is needed.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

That is the direction of travel that has been accelerating over history, Covid has just given it a supercharged boost.

 

And Dave's point is perfectly valid.

 

I really do not understand what you are saying here.

Dave suggested possibly some  draconian measures for self inflicted illnesses so that’s food ,drink and tobacco.What do you and Dave propose?

Covid is not self inflicted unless you completely ignore the guidelines and increase your chances of contracting it.

The Omicron variant was first identified in S.A.at the end of November and Dr Coetzee was considerably more circumspect than you at the time because it was early days and as every should have learnt by now it takes a few weeks to get actual facts.

That is why many countries were announcing  stronger measures to go into the New Year.

So to say that it was obvious to anyone that Omicron was going to be harmless is a ridiculous statement as long as it causes staffing shortages in the NHS and elsewhere.

REMOVE ALL TESTING you will cry and that might happen.

However,it was never going to happen during December because this government has been vilified for late lockdowns,early lifting of restrictions and some of it justified in the light of experience.

So calm down a bit because no matter how effin,bleedin FURIOUS you are  a little more patience is needed.

 

 

 

[Axel 22]

A Psychologists view of Covid.......

 

The following is an insightful and largely accurate presentation of how crowd psychology replaces independent, objective and critical thinking. It lowers anxiety and gives a sense of connection with others at the cost of rationality, common sense and individual objectivity. What we’re seeing today is a form of mass hypnosis, a psychological methodology to aid in reducing anxiety whipped up by the media and government tyrants in the first place. It’s the 21st Century version of mass hysteria. If it’s working so well with COVID-19, how well might it work with even more devastating campaigns of indoctrination and submission to follow?

Below is a summary from Prof. Mattias Desmet, the leading psychological expert on tyranny and totalitarianism and how a crowd hypnosis forms.

 

https://drhurd.com/2021/11/11/the-psychology-of-group-hypnosis-and-american-totalitarianism/

 

people are hypnotized into the obedience “for the good of the collective”

We see this mass formation  finding a new solidarity together as a collective –it brings them a solution to their anxiety- the narration and ideology around the pandemic and vaccines has become “the object of anxiety”. where the free floating anxiety has found a target – an object
all they know is their anxiety is gone and they now have an answer to their anxiety and have new meaning and a new sense of solidarity — they are changed when this happens.

They are not rational anymore and not thinking critically like they once did. This is why we all know once very smart and compassionate friends that are now dumbed down and will not listen to any different voices — they are intolerant and even mean or cruel.
In hypnotism the focus narrows and narrows until the subject cannot see outside their very narrow view of what is real.
Mass formation needs 4 conditions at the same time to take place.

This has now happened. The anxiety and lonely isolation many felt before the pandemic and during the pandemic found their perfect “object of anxiety” and is solidly locked on to the pandemic and vaccine narrative…they cannot be tolerant or allow dissent or different voices and don’t want to even hear any questioning. If they wake up their “terrible anxiety” will return and the leaders of the mass formation cannot allow the mass to wake up either because when the mass wakes up and sees the true damage and loss they will be angry at those that did the damage and likely kill those leaders – in history the organizers of a mass formation are always killed by those once hypnotized that wake up and see the real world again.

— this is currently a social crisis
–and we do have a part to play

Prof Desmet explains….

30% of people are deeply hypnotized

40% are not but go along with the crowd — if this 40% stop hearing dissenting voices of reason they will unite with the hypnotized to go along
we are the last section–

the 30% that cannot be hypnotized; we must keep speaking out.

In totalitarianism when the last voices of dissent give up and become silent – the mass then starts committing atrocities —
for the sake of the solidarity and of the collective.

The unhypnotized 30% are a mixed band of different groups and varied religion and politics. If we don’t find common ground to unite – we lose and without the brave and continued voices of dissent those 40% fall  …

Prof Desmet says the hypnotism and mass formation he now sees is a condition clearly leading to totalitarianism.

In a totalitarian state, once normal people commit atrocities thinking they are righteous.

If we unite the 30% who are awake and wr stand together speaking every day to everyone we meet against the mass formation — against the narrative — the mass dissolves and the crisis is ended.

You don’t have to say a lot – say little things like:
“none of this makes sense”
“the data says something different”
say it to the cashier
say it at the gas station
say it to the repairman
go out of your way to say it

This is the art of resistance; spread seeds of doubt — words of dissent.

 

 

It's interesting that the government have used a team of psychogists to put across project fear, in order to achieve total compliance. The damage caused by their actions will far outweight the damage caused by covid.....

[RJRB 688]

Re#2575

This wasn’t intended to be duplicated a la Chekhov.

An ipad glitch I think.

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, sibon said:

I'm not a fan of vaccine passports, but your "basic logic" is badly flawed.

Whilst the vaccines don't prevent transmission, they certainly reduce it. They also protect against serious illness.

So, basic logic dictates that using vaccine passports at large events will reduce the number of people contracting covid at said events. Any people who do contract covid at the event will be much less likely to require hospital treatment.

Basic logic you see. Reduce risks, get better outcomes. 

They reduce it by a relatively small amount for a relatively short time. Certainly not enough to warrant their draconian introduction.

 

They are very affective at preventing serious illness, and (particularly Astra Zeneca ?) potentially for years, maybe for life (according to Clive Dix). BUT, ironically, that means that vaccine passports are not needed. People should get themselves vaccinated (particularly if over 40 and/or in poor health) and protect themselves, not rely on other people to marginally reduce their risk of catching Covid.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Chekhov

[RJRB 688]

@Axel Nothing new or particular to the 21st Century their.

 

Reason for wars,religion and anything you want to apply it to.

But Psychology is a very inexact science and enjoy analysing everything

 

 

 

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, melthebell said:

Don't be silly, they only see the simple

And you only believe what you want to believe, like many of us to be fair, but at least :

 

1 - I admit it, I have never heard a suppressionist ever do so.

 

2 -  I put loads of evidence on to support my position.

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:

What medical skills and qualification do you have that enable/allow you to give critical medical advice?

 

The fact that you  "...do not believe it is necessary for the prevention of serious illness (which is what I am bothered about) in the great majority of people"  is irrelevant. When dealing with a pandemic, a belief is not sufficient.

I just read stuff :

 

27 Dec 21 - Oxford Astra Zeneca Covid-19 vaccine ‘preventing lagged rise in deaths’
Clive Dix said the durable cellular immunity response produced by the AZ jab can potentially ‘last for life’.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-oxford-europe-fears-b1982611.html

 

Covid-19 news: Booster omicron protection wanes within 10 weeks

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-booster-omicron-protection-wanes-within-10-weeks/#ixzz7GegjIgjk

 

 

[Becky B 31]

7 hours ago, sibon said:

I got it on parchment, delivered by an arrow fired from the ramparts of Bolsover Castle.

🤣🤣 cheered me up, did that!

 

That's a bloody good archer, mind...

8 hours ago, makapaka said:

Could  it potentially show people who had a previous aysmptomatic infection as being positive when they weren’t then?

 

 

Not necessarily.  PCR is used when you have got symptoms.

[hackey lad 3,995]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Are you being serious ? ! ?

You are implying that we have not been put under draconian restrictions on our lives ?

Are we talking now or in 2020 and early 2021 ?

Surely there is no argument at all that society was put under extremely draconian restrictions in 2020 and early 2021. I can vividly remember having a lovely picnic in the sun with my lad up at Holme Moss on the 7th of May last year and suddenly realising that if a police car went past they might stop and ask me why I was there so I was no longer relaxing and enjoying it. And it made me ****ing angry.

Even now we are being forced to get vaccinated so we can go to a soddin' football match, and forced to wear face masks when we go into shops. I accept it's far worse in France*  but it's bad enough over here.

 

* Though it hasn't stopped Omicron over there so it's provably a waste of time.

Forced to get vaccinated , forced to wear a mask . Where are you living ?

[Annie Bynnol 614]

10 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I just read stuff :

...most of us do the same but we wouldn't dream of advising on medical issues people based on belief, it requires understanding.

 

You need to consider the fact your interpretation might be wrong and the effect that would have.