Equal pay for women wasn't supposed to be like this

[ENG601PM]

That's just it, in the entertainment industry there cannot possibly be equal pay, even between men, never mind between men and women, because quantifying what an individual, man or woman, is worth is entirely subjective.

You've made an important point.

 

At the BBC Chris Evans draws in a massive audience every day off the back of his talent, and is paid commensurately.

 

Aha! But what about Claudia Winkleman you say because Strictly has a massive audience too. Very true, but the audience doesn't tune in because of Claudia Winkleman. She's just the best paid member of the part time ensemble and she's paid commensurately.

[melthebell]

but the audience doesn't tune in because of Claudia Winkleman. She's just the best paid member of the part time ensemble and she's paid commensurately.

how do you know? have you asked every member of the viewing public?

[ENG601PM]

how do you know? have you asked every member of the viewing public?

 

Mel, you even posted the whole quote. Have another read and try again.

[truman]

This is a genuine question..aren't all the presenters on the beeb self employed? If that is the case then they'll all have negotiated their own contract..should they all be identical? If I employ 3 self employed decorators to paint my house then should I pay them all the same or should I be allowed to pay one of them lass than the others if that's what he asked for?

[ENG601PM]

This is a genuine question..aren't all the presenters on the beeb self employed? If that is the case then they'll all have negotiated their own contract..should they all be identical? If I employ 3 self employed decorators to paint my house then should I pay them all the same or should I be allowed to pay one of them lass than the others if that's what he asked for?

 

It's a very good question. Women tend not to be very good negotiators, and they also tend to put up with something instead of saying something. Then they take time off for children, and then they often go back to a part time, junior, or completely different role that doesn't pay as well as the one they would have had if they had stayed in work gaining experience, clients, confidence and clout.

 

So what happens is that some women demand that men create an environment where most women don't need to compete fairly with men to compensate for their weaknesses in work environments. This social demand plays to women's strength where men like to please women so they often get more than what they are looking for as men try to out compete each other to present themselves attractively to women.

 

Admittedly that's an amateur reading of psychology, but I don't think I've missed the essence of human nature there.

[tinfoilhat]

This is a genuine question..aren't all the presenters on the beeb self employed? If that is the case then they'll all have negotiated their own contract..should they all be identical? If I employ 3 self employed decorators to paint my house then should I pay them all the same or should I be allowed to pay one of them lass than the others if that's what he asked for?

 

Is one better than the others? Is one quicker than the others? Is one lazier and a bad time keeper compared with the other two?

 

Pricing for entertainment is sporadic. Even at cover-band level, the price can vary massively, it boils down to talent, demand, self worth and what they think they can get. Chris Evans has an agent. He (or she) would go to bbc, show the number of listeners he gets and say he'll bugger off to itv etc unless you pay X. Bbc don't have to pay it.

 

My problem with the whole equality thing is that salaries, no matter how large, are going down to get to a more equal status. Women won't be getting much more money, men are going to get a lot less. Are we going to see a reduction in licence fee?

 

On a broader point people who are good at their job aren't likely to get more money than the person next to them who swings the lead all day - we've all known one.

[Anna B]

It's a very good question. Women tend not to be very good negotiators, and they also tend to put up with something instead of saying something. Then they take time off for children, and then they often go back to a part time, junior, or completely different role that doesn't pay as well as the one they would have had if they had stayed in work gaining experience, clients, confidence and clout.

 

So what happens is that some women demand that men create an environment where most women don't need to compete fairly with men to compensate for their weaknesses in work environments. This social demand plays to women's strength where men like to please women so they often get more than what they are looking for as men try to out compete each other to present themselves attractively to women.

 

Admittedly that's an amateur reading of psychology, but I don't think I've missed the essence of human nature there.

 

But in the entertainment industry, don't the performers work through agents? Isn't it the agents job to negotiate the best fee?

[Chelle-82]

It's a very good question. Women tend not to be very good negotiators, and they also tend to put up with something instead of saying something. Then they take time off for children, and then they often go back to a part time, junior, or completely different role that doesn't pay as well as the one they would have had if they had stayed in work gaining experience, clients, confidence and clout.

 

So what happens is that some women demand that men create an environment where most women don't need to compete fairly with men to compensate for their weaknesses in work environments. This social demand plays to women's strength where men like to please women so they often get more than what they are looking for as men try to out compete each other to present themselves attractively to women.

 

Admittedly that's an amateur reading of psychology, but I don't think I've missed the essence of human nature there.

 

Proof please

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2018 at 13:23 ----------

 

After the recent BBC storm about women presenters not being paid as much, four of the highest paid BBC men have volunteered to take a pay cut. I also happen to know 3 professional companies where pay cuts for men are being seriously looked at so that male / female pay is equalised without affecting their business viability.

 

Way to go 3rd wave feminists! Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it. Maybe don't arrange the Easter ski trip just yet.

 

Good.. Why shouldnt women get paid the same as men doing the same job?

[ENG601PM]

Proof please

It is straightforward enough. Women tend to be pleasers, peacemakers, arbitrators, not fighters. I trust that you recognise that characteristic tends to be with women more than men. It's why women tend to be poor negotiators.

 

You might feel that you are an excellent negotiator, but you would not be typical. I, as a man, have been known to say that I'd set the deal on fire before giving it to somebody who didn't deserve it.

 

Good.. Why shouldnt women get paid the same as men doing the same job?

They should get paid the same if they are doing the same job with the same expertise and experience. I could not be more certain about this.

 

In non skilled roles this is an easy thing to achieve. Press button, make widget, repeat.

 

In craft roles it may be equally easy after some time topping up with the latest techniques and requirements.

 

In professional roles women often hit the buffer because many, if not most professional women do not choose the necessary career path, prioritising family life over time at work. Even if they return they will simply find that many men have pulled ahead of them and have better paying roles. It's not their sex holding them back, it's their time away from the coalface.

 

The entertainment and sport business is a bit different for the reasons already discussed - it's all about bums on seats.

[Chelle-82]

I somewhat agree.. I've worked for a long time in a male dominated industry (construction) so maybe i've got used to holding my own and having the most to say and loudest voice

 

I would like to see some statistics though, it would be interesting..