What's May up to? General election 08/06/2017

[Mister M 1,628]

I am not calling the electorate stupid at all. Nor do I hold anyone who dislikes Corbyn in contempt. There will always be informed people who disagree with him; that's fine.

 

But I do think blatant anti-Corbynism and bias in the media grossly unfair and fails to give him/Labour a level playing field. British politics used to be fair, honourable, and about reasoned argument and debate. I admit it's a long time since we've seen it, but this level of bias and vilification has plumbed new depths.

 

I do have a problem with uninformed people (and by that I mean people who don't have time to trawl the internet veryfying everything they see and read - it really shouldn't be necessary, jumping on the bandwagon because they have seen everything he says, does and appears to want misrepresented. I always thought there were laws about this sort of thing, but of course when he objects that too is turned against him.

 

I'd be interested to know what efforts you've made to find out what he's actually said compared to what he's supposed to have said (just for my own information, I'm hoping to take it up with my MP when I have some statistics and more infrormation to back it.) but I totally respect your right to dislike him and vote as you like.

...........

Agree.

[tinfoilhat 11]

The Tories have been borrowing at very high levels for 7 solid years now. They show no signs of stopping.

 

As for punishing the successful, yes some Labour policies seem to be vindictive. The thing is though that the Tories have been attacking multiple groups in society on a sustained basis for quite some time now. It's as bad as attacking the successful because once theyve chipped away at the foundations of society for long enough then bad things are sure to happen.

 

Wouldn't it be better if we had government that wasn't in hock to vested interests? Labour, Tories, whatever, they all have their snouts in some trough somewhere.

 

That's the key issue. If labour win (big if) it won't be tax-the-rich, we'll be up to our wotsits in pfi deals across the board. They could try to tax the rich but they'll just move (see France under hollande). We all need to pay more tax for the gold plated NHS we all want. We don't want to pay for it.

[MamboNo5 10]

The Tories have been constantly borrowing and they have no intension of creating a fairer society because they are punishing the poor.

 

I'm sorry, you must be confusing me with a Tory.

 

Not liking Corbyn does not equal Tory.

[unbeliever 10]

Tax can't fix it. There's a limit to how much the state can in practise collect in taxation. We need a hybrid healthcare system like most of Europe have.

 

As long as we continue to pretend otherwise because of stupid idealistic nostalgia, our healthcare will continue to suck.

[I1L2T3 10]

That's the key issue. If labour win (big if) it won't be tax-the-rich, we'll be up to our wotsits in pfi deals across the board. They could try to tax the rich but they'll just move (see France under hollande). We all need to pay more tax for the gold plated NHS we all want. We don't want to pay for it.

 

The Tories have set up a plethora of PFI deals too, after tweaking the process and re-christening it PF2. It's a myth that just Labour used it.

 

In reality tax is unlikely to go higher than the 50p band, and it will still be competitive when compared to other countries.

 

This is where people tend to lose the plot. They see the left-leaning parties in the UK as some knd of commies but the reality is much more mild, especially in comparison to other countries.

 

Labour won't win though so you can keep your hair on.

[Hairyloon 10]

You'd have people like me in charge. I'm smart enough to know the difference wisdom, character, and intelligence.

There are a great many people who are of lower intelligence, but who have other qualities that make them better leaders than me.

 

Do we need to be led?

Isn't technocracy about taking us in the direction we have decided to go in?

 

Leadership is a habit left over from the days when we were ruled.

[unbeliever 10]

Do we need to be led?

Isn't technocracy about taking us in the direction we have decided to go in?

 

No. It's about about a gang of intelligent [expletive deleted] attempting to organise the world by grand design and making an almighty mess of it.

[apelike 10]

Really?

 

Mrs May is getting rid of the opposition

 

No Labour have done that to themselves. They had that dodgy bloke Blair that took us into a phoney war, they had Blunkett that gave us draconian ant-terrorism laws, and then to top it all Gordon Brown who sold all our gold reserves on the cheap and then became Prime Minister so as to boost his pension. Then followed by that dull leader called Miliband who had about as much charisma as Hague and was just about as popular. Now Labour have someone else akin to Michael Foot and probably worse if the polls are anything to go by.

 

The only thing about JC I like was his anti-nuclear arms stance.

[MamboNo5 10]

...........

Agree.

 

Maybe the media is biased against him because he's hopeless? And has none of the likeable attributes of a plucky underdog?

 

I've seen him in several interviews come across as an arrogant, patronising and surly asshat.

[tinfoilhat 11]

The Tories have set up a plethora of PFI deals too, after tweaking the process and re-christening it PF2. It's a myth that just Labour used it.

 

In reality tax is unlikely to go higher than the 50p band, and it will still be competitive when compared to other countries.

 

This is where people tend to lose the plot. They see the left-leaning parties in the UK as some knd of commies but the reality is much more mild, especially in comparison to other countries.

 

Labour won't win though so you can keep your hair on.

 

Point I'm (failing) to make is that if labour get in there won't be the huge sea change that people like Anna want to happen. Look accross the pond. Anti establishment (billionaire) trump is going to drain he swamp, build a wall, put America first, dump obamacare. What's he done? Sod all. More over the reverse of the above.

[Hairyloon 10]

I don't disagree with some of his ideas. But 1) I don't think you fix an economy by constant borrowing...

 

Borrow, invest and make money off the investments: makes a lot of sense.

And it has worked before: remember the war? We were properly bankrupt after that, but we borrowed, invested and prospered.

2) I don't think you create a fairer society by punishing the successful.

 

Who is successful without a society to be successful in?

Repaying society for its contribution to your success is not a punishment.

 

I can't really understand Anna's point of view because it isn't the papers that have convinced me he's crap. It's from listening to him myself. Maybe that's true of more people than Anna would care to admit?

 

He is certainly crap on a number of counts, but the real problem is that he has shown up how crap most of the rest of the party are.

We have all had crap bosses: you find ways to work around them and get the job done.

 

S8 (Heeley?) looks a safe Labour seat to me? How would voting Labour there be a tactical vote?

Most of Sheffield is fairly safe Labour I thought. The little parties should get their acts together and have some kind of alliance so we have a fair chance to vote for a third option.

 

---------- Post added 19-04-2017 at 23:07 ----------

 

No. It's about about a gang of intelligent [expletive deleted] attempting to organise the world by grand design and making an almighty mess of it.

 

You're making circular arguments now: you don't like the EU because you see it as technocratic and you don't like technocracy because of the EU.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Hairyloon

[apelike 10]

Borrow, invest and make money off the investments: makes a lot of sense.

And it has worked before: remember the war? We were properly bankrupt after that, but we borrowed, invested and prospered.

 

But it was only around 10 years ago though that we managed to pay off that US WWII debt. We may have prospered since WWII but we have always been in debt and will continue to be.