What's May up to? General election 08/06/2017

[Hairyloon 10]

Take away the top 1% that Jacktari loathes so much and the tax take from income tax falls by about a quarter. So to maintain that take take everyone elses tax rate rises. Assuming you keep the existing personal allowance a quick off the cuff calculation shoves the base rate up 15% assuming an equal pro rata lift to the upper rates.

 

A fair assessment, but you are ignoring the extent to which trickle down economics pushes all the prices up: take away the top layer and all the costs should fall.

[Jacktari 10]

No you've made your point perfectly clear and highlighting your values has been most edifying. I notice you've dodge a few of the important points though...

 

Let me see - people have made more money than you and you were not able to so you feel bitter about it...

 

You want a slice of that goodness so youd ecide that you will have it through taxation. you know that's not especially fair so lets call them spivs and liars and cheats and crooks so you feel better when railing for their "loot" to be taken from them and damn them if they complain...

 

I started the son of a coal miner. Went to a crap school as well. Silver spoon? Yeah right - I got a tin one if I was lucky. But with a bit of perseverance I made it good, helped up by a Govt that actually cared about personal responsibility.

 

So I make good money now - and I pay a fair chuck of it in taxes. And you tell me you want more of that becaue you think it's unfair that you don't get any?

 

Go and work for it then. I did and I'm going to enjoy the fruit of my labour - and if you want it through taxes then think again sunshine - its gone. I know ways to hide it way beyond HM treasury - it's called capital flight and the EU makes it so easy

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 11:13 ----------

 

 

Don't run away with the idea that I am poverty stricken.

I am a retired engineer, and have done quite well out of the capitalist.

It is the beloved 'supply and demand'.

I have what they want, and they are willing to pay for it.

But I have no illusions about the morality of wealth possessors, they have no loyalty, so why should we who create that wealth for them have any towards them?

 

I believe in fair shares, and would have no problem with paying a little more tax on my income, if the result was a happier and healthier country to live in.

 

It is only selfish people who would want otherwise.

[Obelix 11]

A fair assessment, but you are ignoring the extent to which trickle down economics pushes all the prices up: take away the top layer and all the costs should fall.

 

I think that's more likely to be offset by the loss in VAT (wealthy people pay a lot more VAT as they buy more luxuries) and the loss of employment supporting these people and the industries that they have.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 11:29 ----------

 

But I have no illusions about the morality of wealth possessors,.

 

You think my morals are suspect then?

 

Tread carefully.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Obelix
fix quotes

[Jacktari 10]

I think that's more likely to be offset by the loss in VAT (wealthy people pay a lot more VAT as they buy more luxuries) and the loss of employment supporting these people and the industries that they have.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 11:29 ----------

 

 

You think my morals are suspect then?

 

Tread carefully.

 

What have you, personally, got to do with this? Do you consider yourself to be some kind of capitalist?

And why are you issuing threats?

[Obelix 11]

What have you, personally, got to do with this? Do you consider yourself to be some kind of capitalist?

And why are you issuing threats?

 

What makes you think I'm issuing threats? You seem very defensive and prickly.... have you been up to something suspect....?

 

Personally I don't like being abused by people who think that capitalists and landowners - of which I am both - are somewhat dodgy. I also don't like being abused by people who think the rich are always up to no good and need a bit of punitive taxes - which is the attitude you appear to have to me.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 11:48 ----------

 

Get rid of Corbyn, appoint one of the above or persuade David Milliband to return, rally together and go for the oppositions less than impressive record in handling Brexit thus far.

 

That's what the Tory's would do, it's why they are called the nasty party and it's also why they win elections.

 

As others have said Corbyn and Milliband were the Tories best weapons for winning the last few years.

 

The cynic in me wonders if May called the election not because of the good polls, but because she was thinking that Corbyn could be ousted soon and she might have to really have a fight on

[Hairyloon 10]

I think that's more likely to be offset by the loss in VAT (wealthy people pay a lot more VAT as they buy more luxuries) and the loss of employment supporting these people and the industries that they have..

 

The super rich may employ more expensive hair dressers, cleaners and suchlike than the merely rich, but they do not employ very many more. Likewise with consumables.

 

And what industries do you refer to?

Most of the super rich make their money on the markets, which is now mostly a sophisticated way of fleecing everybody.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 11:50 ----------

 

What makes you think I'm issuing threats?

 

"Tread carefully" sounds fairly threatening...

[Obelix 11]

More an admonishment not to carry on insulting me. Threats are an entirely different matter...

[unbeliever 10]

The super rich may employ more expensive hair dressers, cleaners and suchlike than the merely rich, but they do not employ very many more. Likewise with consumables.

 

And what industries do you refer to?

Most of the super rich make their money on the markets, which is now mostly a sophisticated way of fleecing everybody.

 

 

Now you see I promised so despite your own attitude I shall try to explain this without being insulting.

 

Every time the rich make money it gets taxed. That tax money pays for our public services.

Every time rich spend money they spend it on goods and services which poorer people are paid to provide.

Every time the rich invest money in order to gain more, they employ people in the process.

 

Anybody who has a job in the private sector needs the rich, anybody who consumes government services needs the rich, and anybody who works for the government needs the rich.

Do try not to hate them. You need them in order to live.

 

Now the only way a decent society can function is with progressive taxation. So I want the rich to pay lots of tax too. But if you're setting tax policy out of resentment and jealousy then you'll drive them away, or deter them from doing all the rich people things that your exchequer and your economy need them to do.

They'll be fine by the way. They'll just leave or retire. But you'll lose jobs and tax revenue like you wouldn't believe and everybody else will suffer like you've never seen.

 

Please read this thoroughly and think seriously about it before you run around advocating all this "pipe squeak" rubbish as you'll achieve the exact opposite of your goals.

[Penistone999 10]

Just watching the news and a bloke introducing Comrade Corbyn on stage said " introducing the next prime minister , Jeremy Corbyn "

 

:hihi:

 

At least Labour have a sense of humour.

[Hairyloon 10]

Every time the rich invest money in order to gain more, they employ people in the process...

 

How many people are employed per transaction in the buying and selling of stocks and shares, bearing in mind that most of those transactions are done by robots at rates of many millions per second.

 

Where does the profit that they make actually come from?

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 13:09 ----------

 

Do try not to hate them. You need them in order to live...

 

You make very binary assumptions you know: "you don't agree with me therefore you must believe in communism".

The dichotomy are entirely false, but I suppose I should by now expect little from you other than fallacies.

[Carlinate 10]

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2017 at 11:48 ----------

 

 

As others have said Corbyn and Milliband were the Tories best weapons for winning the last few years.

 

The cynic in me wonders if May called the election not because of the good polls, but because she was thinking that Corbyn could be ousted soon and she might have to really have a fight on

 

You can be sure that that was one of the considerations.

 

Brexit is going to be messy, I can see no way whatsoever where any politician involved in handling it is going to come out smelling of roses.

 

The Remainers won't be happy because we think that it was a daft thing to do and the country will be damaged by it.

 

The Brexiteers won't be happy because they won't get what it appears many of them want, a clean break, a return to the halcyon days of Empire when Britainnia ruled the waves, God was in his heaven and those pesky foreigners knew their place.

 

Not saying they're all like that, but a number of those that I've spoken to appear to hold that sort of view, unable to articulate actual positive aims it's all about " Taking back control " and " Putting the Great back in Britain ".

 

When reality dawns and the Raj doesn't make a comeback and it becomes plain that times have changed they are going to be very unhappy.

 

It will all be the EUs fault of course for conducting negotiations on behalf of the remaining members and not acquiescing to every demand the UK makes.

 

If only we could send a gunboat, those were the days.

[unbeliever 10]

How many people are employed per transaction in the buying and selling of stocks and shares, bearing in mind that most of those transactions are done by robots at rates of many millions per second.

 

Where does the profit that they make actually come from?

 

 

Per transaction, an absolutely tiny fraction of 1. In total, absolutely millions.

 

You might want to look some of this stuff up. You're very quick with the whole "you don't agree with me therefore you've misunderstood" line. That's going to cause problems for you if you display wilful ignorance of that which you can easily learn.