Israel and the US abandon the two-state solution'

[area 51]

I have been doing a bit of information searching today and getting any independent information is nigh on impossible.I have realised that hamas are not willing to compromise and want Jews out of the middle east completely and it appears this is a common feeling among most muslims.Is this not ethnic cleansing.

[unbeliever]

I'm sorry, but you just have no idea, at all, about the complexity of the Israel-Palestine issue.

 

the narrative you are trying to hype, i.e. that Jewish people in Israel (or Judea ; ever wondered why it's called that?) are 'western imperialists' like the British in India is so completely wide of the mark, that it's laughable.

 

there has been a Jewish prescence on the land, CONTINUOUSLY, for 3,300 years. Today's Israelis speak a Middle Eastern language indigenous to the region, they write in a Middle Eastern script and they eat Middle Eastern food.

 

what Zionism, or Israel, is not ' western colonialism' at all like the mindless lefties, and let's be frank, most Muslims try to make out that it is. It is on the contrary, the most incredible ANTI-colonialist movement ever. After almost 2,000 years of foreign occupation, during which many of them were exiled from their historic homeland, in 1948, Jewish people finally got their sovereignty back in Israel.

 

of course Arabs have their claims too, some of which I consider fairly valid, and others of which I definitely don't. The reality is that both Arabs and Jews have good claims and that is why the Israel-Palestine issue is such a complex issue.

 

Quite right. I've been saying this since page 1. But one gets a sea of nonsense in reply. At least between us we've got the truth down and challenged the lies.

Readers with an open mind will be exposed to both sides and will hopefully winkle out the truth.

[blake]

No Blake. I am am more aware than you think. Don't try to shut people up like that ..

The situation is akin to Apartheid south Africa only a far right racist or religious zionist would try to defend the indefensible which the Zionist occupation and slow genocide of Palestine and the Palestinians really is. Shame on you.

 

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be personally insulting, but it's obvious from these remarks that you know almost nothing about the Israel-Palestine issue.

 

the more than 20% of Israeli citizens who are Arabs can vote, stand for Knesset (parliament) and enjoy the same rights that every other kind of Israeli does, and the situation, for Arab Israeli citizens at least, is nothing like it was for blacks or other non-whites in apartheid South Africa at all. Israeli Arab citizens have it better, certainly regarding political rights if not necessarily incomes (as Israel is NOT the most affluent country in the region) than any other Arabs in the Middle East.

 

and please stop using silly expressions like 'slow genocide' to describe the situation of Palestinian Arabs. Compared to 50 years ago, Palestinian Arabs have tripled in number, their life expectancy has almost doubled, whilst other key socio-economic indicators like their infant mortality, educational attainment, and their incomes have also improved absolutely massively.

 

perhaps you'd like to supply any other examples of 'genocide' in history when while this 'genocide' has been going on, the numbers of people supposedly suffering the 'genocide' has increased massively, they are living longer, they are in better health, they are getting better educated, and they make more money than they ever did before. Because that's what happened to the Palestinian Arabs in the past 50 years.

 

don't know about you, but I can't off the top of the head think of one.

[WestTinsley]

Blake I suspect as with hardline ukippers and EDL and Britain First bnp FN and the like your impression on the Plight of Palestinians which is akin to Apartheid South Africa, is based on racism and/or ignorance. You haven't a clue what your talking about .

Palestinians (under their education system) have One of the most advanced in the World .. like Cuba or the likes. And has been for decades.

 

---------- Post added 18-02-2017 at 05:10 ----------

 

Because that's what happened to the Palestinian Arabs in the past 50 years.

 

don't know about you, but I can't off the top of the head think of one.

It's 69 years+ btw

 

The Palestinians (of all religions and none)are the indigenous levantine people ..going back thousands of years Blake.

 

Imagine if Bosnians or Bolivians (e.g.) came to Britain and then decided that God gave Britain to them and then they decided to systematically to kick out the British ..

And the natives were forced to become refugees in a small section of their occupied land (or forcibly exiled there or in neighbouring countrys) and to live under a brutal racist military occupation ..what would you do and think???

Edited February 18, 2017 by WestTinsley

[blake]

 

Imagine if Bosnians or Bolivians (e.g.) came to Britain and then decided that God gave Britain to them and then they decided to systematically to kick out the British ..

 

a totally false, infantile, childish analogy. The Jews did kick the British out of Palestine in 1948, but the way they look at it is that they kicked the British, who were merely the latest of dozens of foreign occupiers, out of their historic homeland. Jews have been there CONTINUOUSLY, without a break, for at least 3,300 years and those that aren't there, wish they were at each Passover Ceder which ends with the words Next Year in Jerusalem. All of that was going on for about 2,000 years before anybody thought of Zionism or the modern Israel.

[Robin-H]

Blake I suspect as with hardline ukippers and EDL and Britain First bnp FN and the like your impression on the Plight of Palestinians which is akin to Apartheid South Africa, is based on racism and/or ignorance. You haven't a clue what your talking about .

Palestinians (under their education system) have One of the most advanced in the World .. like Cuba or the likes. And has been for decades.

 

---------- Post added 18-02-2017 at 05:10 ----------

 

It's 69 years+ btw

 

The Palestinians (of all religions and none)are the indigenous levantine people ..going back thousands of years Blake.

 

Imagine if Bosnians or Bolivians (e.g.) came to Britain and then decided that God gave Britain to them and then they decided to systematically to kick out the British ..

And the natives were forced to become refugees in a small section of their occupied land (or forcibly exiled there or in neighbouring countrys) and to live under a brutal racist military occupation ..what would you do and think???

 

And how exactly is that analogy meant to represent the situation in Israel and Palestine? Are you saying that Britain is the ancestral home of Bosnians or Bolivians (for example)? Is Britain where the Bosnian or Bolivian language developed? Do Bosnians and Bolivians have a record of continuous occupation of Britian going back over 3000 years?

[WestTinsley]

And how exactly is that analogy meant to represent the situation in Israel and Palestine? Are you saying that Britain is the ancestral home of Bosnians or Bolivians (for example)? Is Britain where the Bosnian or Bolivian language developed? Do Bosnians and Bolivians have a record of continuous occupation of Britian going back over 3000 years?

Well if you don't know the facts of the situation or history then you'll not understand the analogy.

 

People changed religions throughout time ..

Most of Saudi Arabia and Yemen was Jewish then later Christian 2000 years ago..

Most jews thesedays have little origin with the middle east let alone Palestine.

 

So we should let the Welsh retake the rest of Britain and the English move to Germany or wherever? That's the logic of your argument.

The Palestinians are the indigenous people no matter what their religion (Christian Muslim Jew Samaritan and Druze)

I'm not debating your opinions . The facts prove otherwise..

 

The Palestinians were kicked out of their country ..over 80% of them by foreign settlers.. (those left lived under harsh military rule until the late 60s and separate laws and racist treatment from that state ever since )how anyone can support that is beyond me..

Edited February 18, 2017 by WestTinsley

[unbeliever]

Well if you don't know the facts of the situation or history then you'll not understand the analogy.

 

People changed religions throughout time ..

Most of Saudi Arabia and Yemen was Jewish then later Christian 2000 years ago..

Most jews thesedays have little origin with the middle east let alone Palestine.

 

So we should let the Welsh retake the rest of Britain and the English move to Germany or wherever? That's the logic of your argument.

The Palestinians are the indigenous people no matter what their religion (Christian Muslim Jew Samaritan and Druze)

I'm not debating your opinions . The facts prove otherwise..

 

The Palestinians were kicked out of their country ..80% of them by foreign settlers.. how anyone can support that is beyond me..

 

 

 

I linked to actual scientific genetic studies of both people showing that you're completely wrong.

Actual science. Genetics. What the actual ...? There is absolute scientific proof that the modern Israelis are direct descendants of the ancient people of the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel.

Absolute, irrefutable, concrete, scientific proof!

 

Here it is again:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/05/000509003653.htm

 

Now there is a lot to be said in legitimate criticism of the conduct of the government of Israel.

And a lot to be said in legitimate sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians.

Those inclined to champion the cause of the Palestinian people are entitled to their opinions. They are however not entitled to their own facts.

Edited February 18, 2017 by unbeliever

[WestTinsley]

Please. there are countless studies on genetics . All with differing results . Btw for someone who is called unbeliever you do rely on religious dogma quite a lot to support 'your' narrative.

 

 

You should answer the points I've mentioned rather than rattle off your biasedopinions. You do that 24/7 on here it seems.

[blake]

What people like WestTinsley don't realise, is that they are not helping, but undermining the Palestinian Arab cause by continuing to mouth off obvious nonsense like Jews are 'invaders', 'Zionists are Nazis', 'Israel equals Apartheid" and so on. Every neutral knows that this narrative is rubbish.

 

It's because they're usually Pakistani Muslims that haven't got the slightest clue about Palestinian Arabs and their Jewish cousins.