Israel and the US abandon the two-state solution'

[The Joker]

So you'll be arguing for dark skinned people in the west to be repatriated as well unless they can establish that they're the descendants of legal immigrants?

 

did those "dark skinned people in the west" force their way into the country illegally, take over Britain and set up their own nation while subjugating the indigenous population? The Islamic Republic of Tinsley ?

 

No they didn't. So stop diverting the issue.

 

Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back.

[unbeliever]

did those "dark skinned people in the west" force their way into the country illegally, take over Britain and set up their own nation while subjugating the indigenous population? The Islamic Republic of Tinsley ?

 

No they didn't. So stop diverting the issue.

 

Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back.

 

 

Still not read any of the links to what actually happened have you?

Do you need me to post them again?

 

I thought you were a progressive. How do you manage this level of cognitive dissonance? Did you fall and hit your head?

 

In case you missed this one, yet another member is trying to shake some sense into you now.

 

Like others I am shocked by the sentiments that you seem to be espousing here.

 

Hopefully it is because you haven't really thought through what you are saying, and you don't really believe that children and grandchildren of immigrants should return to their 'country of ancestry'.

Edited February 16, 2017 by unbeliever

[The Joker]

I thought you were a progressive. How do you manage this level of cognitive dissonance? Did you fall and hit your head?

 

No, I was shot and stabbed to death by a brexiter shortly before the referendum.

 

So, we're three pages into the debate and I'm still trying to work out why a so-called hardline brexiter who was championing the cause to reclaim the sovereignty we never lost is adamant the Palestinians don't deserve any.

 

Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back.

[unbeliever]

No, I was shot and stabbed to death by a brexiter shortly before the referendum.

 

So, we're three pages into the debate and I'm still trying to work out why a so-called hardline brexiter who was championing the cause to reclaim the sovereignty we never lost is adamant the Palestinians don't deserve any.

 

Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back.

 

No I think that the Palestinians deserve a state.

Either split the territory with the Israelis (this was the 1948 plan) or create a power-sharing unity government like in Northern Ireland.

Or do you think that the Protestants in Northern Ireland should have been forcibly repatriated to Great Britain (mostly Scotland if I remember my history correctly) ?

 

Why to you want to make 6 million innocent people, mostly who were born in Israel, stateless? Or is it your plan to "drive them into the sea" like Hamas plan?

How does this sit right with you? Come on, you can still walk this back.

[The Joker]

Why to you want to make 6 million innocent people, mostly who were born in Israel, stateless? Or is it your plan to "drive them into the sea" like Hamas plan?

 

you should ask those Eastern Europeans immigrants why they want to make the Palestinians stateless.

 

Didn't those Eastern Europeans immigrants recently sign off a large construction project for 4000 homes in the West Bank?

 

Yes, yes they did.

 

Another cynical attempt to steal yet more Palestinian territory when they think the world isn't looking.

 

For shame.

 

Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back.

[unbeliever]

you should ask those Eastern Europeans immigrants why they want to make the Palestinians stateless.

 

Didn't those Eastern Europeans immigrants recently sign off a large construction project for 4000 homes in the West Bank?

 

Yes, yes they did.

 

Another cynical attempt to steal yet more Palestinian territory when they think the world isn't looking.

 

For shame.

 

Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back.

 

Right yes. A little off the core topic, but Israel is quite wrong to build settlements on occupied territory.

Are you going to address any of the actual points I made in my last post?

Did you read the link to the generic testing of the Israelis and Palestinians showing their shared regional heritage?

Are you engaging brain at all?

 

Also, now that I've flat out stated I support a Palestinian sovereign state (or a shared state with Israel), I'm calling straw man on this "Now let's give the Palestinians their sovereignty back" as it's not in dispute.

Edited February 16, 2017 by unbeliever

[The Joker]

Right yes. A little off the core topic, but Israel is quite wrong to build settlements on occupied territory.

Are you going to address any of the actual points I made in my last post?

 

power sharing with both sides living in a single nation is my preferred option but the ultra-zionists would not allow it.

 

Look what the ultra-zionists did to their own PM a couple of decades ago, gunned down for <gasp> daring to speak to the Arabs.

 

It's all very well criticising Hamas, but the israeli government should clamp down on the ultra-zionists instead of indulging them.

 

That they don't, and instead continue to build on Palestinian land shows that the main obstacle to peace (either as a single state, or separate) isn't the Palestinians, but the israelis.

 

Now at least let's give the Palestinians their dignity back, if not their sovereignty.

[unbeliever]

power sharing with both sides living in a single nation is my preferred option but the ultra-zionists would not allow it.

 

Look what the ultra-zionists did to their own PM a couple of decades ago, gunned down for <gasp> daring to speak to the Arabs.

 

It's all very well criticising Hamas, but the israeli government should clamp down on the ultra-zionists instead of indulging them.

 

That they don't, and instead continue to build on Palestinian land shows that the main obstacle to peace (either as a single state, or separate) isn't the Palestinians, but the israelis.

 

Now at least let's give the Palestinians their dignity back, if not their sovereignty.

 

Well it seems that we are largely agreed on the way forward if not on the history. I suppose that's something.

 

I see no case for equivalence between the crimes and faults of the 2 sides.

Hamas want to wipe out the Israelis. If the Israelis were similar the Palestinians would have been dead for 70 years.

That said I think that despite the serious threat they face, the Israelis could do better and should.

[blake]

he wouldn't be the first one, but The Joker has this fundamental misconception, about Israel.

 

he thinks the land has been 'taken over' by these 'white skinned' people. To his credit, the Joker hasn't quite said that they are 6'2 and blue eyed as well, like the totally obvious Abu Dhabi television watching antisemites do who think Jews drink Christian children's blood, for breakfast.

 

It's clear the Joker has never been to Israel. If he had, he would know that it is impossible, to tell an Arab apart from a Jew just by looking at them.

 

The Joker also needs to know that among Jewish Israelis, Ashkenhazi Jews, who used to be the majority among Jewish Israelis, are now the minority and that the majority of Jewish Israelis trace their immeadiate ancestry back to places like Iran, Iraq, and Morocco etc and they have no ancestral link with Europe at all, or any other region except the Middle East.

[WestTinsley]

Who should adjudicate on such matters if not the UN?

 

This land has changed hands so many times in recorded history it can't legitimately be said to belong to any one people.

It is after all basically the ancient Kingdom of Judea plus the ancient Kingdom of Israel.

So you tell me why the claim of the Arabs to this land trumps all others, you may as well argue it should be given back to the Romans.

 

Your ideas of History are far from the truth.

To use biblical bs as an historical source is far fetched even for you unbeliever..

The Palestinians are the indigenous people ..going back thousands of years.

"Arabization" is only due to the Arab conquest of north Africa and the mid east and levant 1400 years and is basically a Linguist and Cultural Unity of Those areas thesedays .

 

 

Imagine if Bosnians or Bolivians came to Britain and then decided that God gave Britain to them and then they decided to systematically kick out the British ..

And then youd be a refugee in a small section of your occupied country or neighbouring ones ..what would do and think???

Edited February 17, 2017 by WestTinsley