UKIP - What a joke..

[SkylinePhoto 10]

UKIP were always just a single-issue Tory splinter group. Now that they've got their way on the single issue, they're being reabsorbed back into the Tory party.

 

I think they'll probably rebrand and have a strong domestic policy to clean up where labour have lost the working classes

[SkylinePhoto 10]

im not a UKIP voter but if i was id say they'd need to be tough on crime and tough on benefits cheats. that sort of thing

 

the stuff that annoys people

[SkylinePhoto 10]

The NHS is a liberal political argument. An argument that every anti-government person has. The NHS has huge amounts of money but it is being wasted on bad management and un-emergency care.

 

Affordable housing unfairly being given priority to EU and non EU immigrants is probably another vote winner too.

[SkylinePhoto 10]

I agree that managerialism etc. are major problems with the NHS, but the more fundamental problem is that Tory/UKIP are just not committed to the NHS. The whole concept of the NHS goes against Tory/UKIP ideology, and it would take much more than a "rebrand" to alter that.

 

I'm also struggling to see how clamping down on benefit fraud and other crime (or restricting immigrants' access to housing) might help the NHS, other than peripherally.

 

Setting aside the question of the extent to which immigrants actually are given priority with respect to housing, the basic problem is that there just isn't enough decent, cheap housing (in some parts of the country). You need somewhere to live whether you're a recent immigrant or have lived here all your life. Remember, even Tory/UKIP don't say that immigration should be abolished, just that we should limit it to the "right type" of immigrant.

 

The NHS has to be taken out of politics and run by trustees but i guess a bad example would be the BBC. However, the BBC is profitable.

 

SOcial housing should not be available to anyone who is not a UK citizen. If you are from the EU and need affordable housing then you should go home.

[ECCOnoob 1,050]

So you think that the one thing that working class people care more about than anything else is that the Tories are not being tough enough on benefits fraudsters and other criminals? Not the NHS, or having decent jobs, or affordable housing, or a level educational playing field for their children? Or do you think all of those problems would be solved if only the government were a bit tougher on benefits cheats and other criminals?

 

Yes.

 

That's why the Labour party are currently dying on their backsides.

 

They dont know the basics about what their alleged core support i.e. the so called "working class" "man of the people" "real proper jobs" sorts actually focus on.

 

These are the sort of people who actively read the Daily Mail, Express and Sun as genuine news publications. The people who openly pass judgment on funny looking foreigners. The people who take sensationalised stories about scammy doleys and child benefit claimants with 10+ kids and government departments wasting billions of taxpayer monies on pg tips and NHS monies being wasted on a black and ethnic minority asylum seeker paedophile accommodation units and hate preachers being handed out council grants etc... etc... AT FACE VALUE. THEY BELIEVE EVERY WORD OF IT.

 

In fact, there is far more cross over between the salt of the earth, low income, so called "proper" working class and the hard core right wing fox hunting loving Chipping Norton set than people would ever like to admit.

 

Compo & Co can prattle on year after year about the NHS and social mobility and fair society and fair education all they want, but until they actually take their head out of the sand and actually face up to what their party is really supposed to stand for, they will keep going nowhere.

Edited April 8, 2017 by ECCOnoob

[SkylinePhoto 10]

Yes.

 

That's why the Labour party are currently dying on their backsides.

 

They dont know the basics about what their alleged core support i.e. the so called "working class" "man of the people" "real proper jobs" sorts actually focus on.

 

These are the sort of people who actively read the Daily Mail, Express and Sun as a genuine news publications. The people who openly pass judgment on funny looking foreigners.

 

They are far more cross overs between the salt of the earth, low income, so called "proper" working class and the hard core right wing fox hunting loving Chipping Norton set than people would ever like to admit.

 

Compo & Co can prattle on year after year about the NHS and social mobility and fair society and fair education all they want, but until they actually take their head out of the sand and actually face up to what their party is really supposed to stand for, they will keep going nowhere.

 

Diane Abbott

[Ridgewalk 101]

Yes.

 

That's why the Labour party are currently dying on their backsides.

 

They dont know the basics about what their alleged core support i.e. the so called "working class" "man of the people" "real proper jobs" sorts actually focus on.

 

These are the sort of people who actively read the Daily Mail, Express and Sun as genuine news publications. The people who openly pass judgment on funny looking foreigners. The people who take sensationalised stories about scammy doleys and child benefit claimants with 10+ kids and government departments wasting billions of taxpayer monies on pg tips and NHS monies being wasted on a black and ethnic minority asylum seeker paedophile accommodation units and hate preachers being handed out council grants etc... etc... AT FACE VALUE. THEY BELIEVE EVERY WORD OF IT.

 

In fact, there is far more cross over between the salt of the earth, low income, so called "proper" working class and the hard core right wing fox hunting loving Chipping Norton set than people would ever like to admit.

 

Compo & Co can prattle on year after year about the NHS and social mobility and fair society and fair education all they want, but until they actually take their head out of the sand and actually face up to what their party is really supposed to stand for, they will keep going nowhere.

 

 

Agree with your analysis. Everywhere I go, be it cafe, pub, sometimes see it in Libraries the only newspapers availale are the three you mention. If the people who read these papers, decide to vote Conservative or UKIP and believe that those Parties represent their best interest let them do so.

In your opinion what is Labour "really supposed to stand for" ?

 

---------- Post added 09-04-2017 at 09:01 ----------

 

Incidentally the Library I visited where the only newspapers available were the Mail, Express and Sun was Barnsley central, the first floor off Wellington street. I kid you not.

 

---------- Post added 09-04-2017 at 09:07 ----------

 

The NHS has to be taken out of politics and run by trustees but i guess a bad example would be the BBC. However, the BBC is profitable.

 

SOcial housing should not be available to anyone who is not a UK citizen. If you are from the EU and need affordable housing then you should go home.

 

How do you take the NHS out of politics ? Thé Tories are ideologically opposed to state provision of any services which makes the NHS highly political.

[banjodeano 31]

Yes.

 

That's why the Labour party are currently dying on their backsides.

 

They dont know the basics about what their alleged core support i.e. the so called "working class" "man of the people" "real proper jobs" sorts actually focus on.

 

These are the sort of people who actively read the Daily Mail, Express and Sun as genuine news publications. The people who openly pass judgment on funny looking foreigners. The people who take sensationalised stories about scammy doleys and child benefit claimants with 10+ kids and government departments wasting billions of taxpayer monies on pg tips and NHS monies being wasted on a black and ethnic minority asylum seeker paedophile accommodation units and hate preachers being handed out council grants etc... etc... AT FACE VALUE. THEY BELIEVE EVERY WORD OF IT.

 

In fact, there is far more cross over between the salt of the earth, low income, so called "proper" working class and the hard core right wing fox hunting loving Chipping Norton set than people would ever like to admit.

 

Compo & Co can prattle on year after year about the NHS and social mobility and fair society and fair education all they want, but until they actually take their head out of the sand and actually face up to what their party is really supposed to stand for, they will keep going nowhere.

I would agree with most of that post, and you have hit the nail firmly on the head with a few points..but i do disagree with the point that the party doesnt know what it stands for, half the party does, and half the party doesnt, the party is split straight down the middle, the socialists in the party want re-nationalization, protection of the public services, affordable housing, etc, whereas the Blairites in the party are happy to go along with cutting benefits, sending our troops into war, and letting the large corporations get away with not paying their taxes whilst everyone else lives in austerity...

Hopefully the socialists in the party can take back control and direct the party in the direction that it should go, but i very much doubt they will

[Ridgewalk 101]

Yes.

 

That's why the Labour party are currently dying on their backsides.

 

They dont know the basics about what their alleged core support i.e. the so called "working class" "man of the people" "real proper jobs" sorts actually focus on.

 

These are the sort of people who actively read the Daily Mail, Express and Sun as genuine news publications. The people who openly pass judgment on funny looking foreigners. The people who take sensationalised stories about scammy doleys and child benefit claimants with 10+ kids and government departments wasting billions of taxpayer monies on pg tips and NHS monies being wasted on a black and ethnic minority asylum seeker paedophile accommodation units and hate preachers being handed out council grants etc... etc... AT FACE VALUE. THEY BELIEVE EVERY WORD OF IT.

 

In fact, there is far more cross over between the salt of the earth, low income, so called "proper" working class and the hard core right wing fox hunting loving Chipping Norton set than people would ever like to admit.

 

Compo & Co can prattle on year after year about the NHS and social mobility and fair society and fair education all they want, but until they actually take their head out of the sand and actually face up to what their party is really supposed to stand for, they will keep going nowhere.

 

 

What would you have the Labour Party do, revert back to the 1970's so we could have, Bernard Manning and Jim Davison type humour, tell "queer" jokes etc., in order to be relevant

 

---------- Post added 09-04-2017 at 09:21 ----------

 

I would agree with most of that post, and you have hit the nail firmly on the head with a few points..but i do disagree with the point that the party doesnt know what it stands for, half the party does, and half the party doesnt, the party is split straight down the middle, the socialists in the party want re-nationalization, protection of the public services, affordable housing, etc, whereas the Blairites in the party are happy to go along with cutting benefits, sending our troops into war, and letting the large corporations get away with not paying their taxes whilst everyone else lives in austerity...

Hopefully the socialists in the party can take back control and direct the party in the direction that it should go, but i very much doubt they will

 

 

 

Things in my opinion that are in the interests of working class people are good public services,good Education, NHS, Social Services, Housing, Safe Neighbourhoods, fair Benefits, Jobs, Investment, Environmentally friendly Energy policy, Employment Rights, Nationalised Rail Industry. Good Public Transport and affordable.

 

If yer average Mail, Express, Sun reader wants to support the Tories (UKIP) let them

[sgtkate 10]

Yes.

 

That's why the Labour party are currently dying on their backsides.

 

They dont know the basics about what their alleged core support i.e. the so called "working class" "man of the people" "real proper jobs" sorts actually focus on.

 

These are the sort of people who actively read the Daily Mail, Express and Sun as genuine news publications. The people who openly pass judgment on funny looking foreigners. The people who take sensationalised stories about scammy doleys and child benefit claimants with 10+ kids and government departments wasting billions of taxpayer monies on pg tips and NHS monies being wasted on a black and ethnic minority asylum seeker paedophile accommodation units and hate preachers being handed out council grants etc... etc... AT FACE VALUE. THEY BELIEVE EVERY WORD OF IT.

 

In fact, there is far more cross over between the salt of the earth, low income, so called "proper" working class and the hard core right wing fox hunting loving Chipping Norton set than people would ever like to admit.

 

Compo & Co can prattle on year after year about the NHS and social mobility and fair society and fair education all they want, but until they actually take their head out of the sand and actually face up to what their party is really supposed to stand for, they will keep going nowhere.

 

If those are the people labour is meant to target then I'd rather see it die on it's arse than accommodate them.

[SkylinePhoto 10]

If those are the people labour is meant to target then I'd rather see it die on it's arse than accommodate them.

 

I think that's what the left, corbyn, snowflakes, liberal, sjw's are actively trying to do.

 

Destroy labour and then they'll just slide back to the socialist green liberal party

[sgtkate 10]

I think that's what the left, corbyn, snowflakes, liberal, sjw's are actively trying to do.

 

Destroy labour and then they'll just slide back to the socialist green liberal party

 

Good, because then I'll have a party I believe in and support. If the working class people who traditionally supported Labour don't believe that this Labour party represents them then they can find another party who does, like I have done up till now having voted Green where I had a candidate to vote for. Now Labour align fairly closely with my beliefs so I'll support them unless they go back to Blairite politics and I shall return to the Green party. To be honest, I'm pretty close to going back to the Greens anyway as I no longer have confidence in Corbyn's ability to run the party, I fully support his ideas and stance but either he's a liability and has made some awful decisions of late.