Oughtibridge paper mill development.

[Planner1]

Links to Oughtibridge Mill development Traffic Assessments :

 

Part One

 

Part Two

 

Part Three

 

I don`t actually have time to trawl through all those, certainly at the moment. But in the time I spent I couldn`t find any assessment of the impact on the Leppings Lane car park, sorry junction.

 

When you say save time, I wouldn`t consider any research I do as wasted time, I trust my own figures more than anything else. After all, didn`t you say than assumption of 1900 vehicle per hour along Middlewood Rd ? I`m fairly sure that`s way off the mark.

I haven`t actually researched it yet, but some reasonable assumptions :

If 1900 vehicle along Middlewood Rd

Two Thirds (65%) want to go straight on down Parkside Rd towards Penistone Rd

25% want to go down Lepping Lane

10% want to bear left along Middlewood Rd.

 

That would mean that 1235 cars per hour (65% x 1900) would need to get through the lights in one hour. The light cycle is one minute, that would mean 21 cars would need to get through (on average) every light cycle. Seems unlikely to me, remember it`s only on green for about 15 seconds* and frequently the exit is blocked down Parkside Rd.

I`ll not say it`s impossible till I`ve proved it though.

 

* This is an estimate I haven`t checked it. Three cycles plus "Amber time" (for those who abide by it, obviously) per 60 seconds. Bear in mind there are significant queues along all three entry roads to Leppings Lane car park (sorry, junction), so you can`t just adjust the light timing to ease the Middlewood Rd queue.

The 1900 figure is theoretical saturation flow on a single lane road. The capacity of a junction will be somewhat different and I never mentioned what the existing flows are.

 

No-one is pretending that the development won't add to the traffic on the local highway network. The point is that the assessment appears to show that the impact won't be significant.

 

You live in a city that has to provide many thousands of new homes over the coming years and also wants economic development. All of that is bound to increase pressure on transport networks for road and public transport users alike.

 

Doing something to significantly improve traffic conditions around Leppings Lane / Hillsborough is going to be very costly and the scheme would take a lot of costly development work. Whether the business case would stack up to justify it to likely funders is anyone's guess at the moment.

 

---------- Post added 15-09-2016 at 22:15 ----------

 

Planner1 what you seem to fail to comprehend or even respect that a lot of existing residents, myself included, don't give a damn out the 'statistics ' when it is them who are already experiencing congestion and traffic jams and know what the reality will be based on their current experiences

 

And as for one of your earlier posts about working flexi time.. I DO work flexi time but still get caught up in traffic as I like to get to work by 8.30, this meaning I can have a work/life balance.

I already leave 10 mins a day earlier than I did a year ago as traffic means the link bus I used to catch no longer connects with the tram it should.

 

That for all your bluster,spin, statistics and BS is the reality of someone who is already living here prior to this being built.

Any major city or decent size town has peak hour congestion. For me, Sheffield's isn't as bad as many places.

 

If you expect to get to a situation where there is no congestion, you are going to be disappointed. Economic and population growth generally mean more car use and more congestion.

 

Major road capacity improvements cost a lot and you need to reduce delays significantly for a lot of motorists to justify the expenditure to those who provide funds. The schemes take years to develop. SCC don't have any major capacity improvement scheme in development for the area being discussed here, so no prospect of improvement in the near future I'm afraid.

[semerpus]

The 1900 figure is theoretical saturation flow on a single lane road. The capacity of a junction will be somewhat different and I never mentioned what the existing flows are.

 

No-one is pretending that the development won't add to the traffic on the local highway network. The point is that the assessment appears to show that the impact won't be significant.

 

You live in a city that has to provide many thousands of new homes over the coming years and also wants economic development. All of that is bound to increase pressure on transport networks for road and public transport users alike.

 

Doing something to significantly improve traffic conditions around Leppings Lane / Hillsborough is going to be very costly and the scheme would take a lot of costly development work. Whether the business case would stack up to justify it to likely funders is anyone's guess at the moment.

 

---------- Post added 15-09-2016 at 22:15 ----------

 

Any major city or decent size town has peak hour congestion. For me, Sheffield's isn't as bad as many places.

 

If you expect to get to a situation where there is no congestion, you are going to be disappointed. Economic and population growth generally mean more car use and more congestion.

 

Major road capacity improvements cost a lot and you need to reduce delays significantly for a lot of motorists to justify the expenditure to those who provide funds. The schemes take years to develop. SCC don't have any major capacity improvement scheme in development for the area being discussed here, so no prospect of improvement in the near future I'm afraid.

 

So you & SCC might as well just flick us a V

[Justin Smith]

The 1900 figure is theoretical saturation flow on a single lane road. The capacity of a junction will be somewhat different and I never mentioned what the existing flows are.

 

No-one is pretending that the development won't add to the traffic on the local highway network. The point is that the assessment appears to show that the impact won't be significant.

 

You live in a city that has to provide many thousands of new homes over the coming years and also wants economic development. All of that is bound to increase pressure on transport networks for road and public transport users alike.

 

Doing something to significantly improve traffic conditions around Leppings Lane / Hillsborough is going to be very costly and the scheme would take a lot of costly development work. Whether the business case would stack up to justify it to likely funders is anyone's guess at the moment.

 

Err, yes it will :

 

I did a bit of research at the Leppings Lane junction. It`s actually as bad as I`d feared.

The light cycle there takes about 1min 20 seconds, for that time Middlewood Rd is on green for about 25 seconds. The highest number of vehicles which got through (to go straight on down Parkside Rd lane) was 13, and generally it was about 10, sometimes as low as 5 or 6. I`d say an average of 10 would be about right. Again, just like the survey above, there were significant gaps between vehicles because the lights at the P&R were restricting the flow. So, at 1 min 20 seconds you get about 46 light change cycles per hour, thus, at 10 cars (average) per change, the maximum capacity of the junction (for straight on) is about 460 vehicles per hour. You do, of course, have to add to that the vehicles turning left down Leppings Lane and bearing right (at the earlier junc) to go straight on along Middlewood Rd. That requires more research, but I`d be surprised in the total capacity of Middlewood Rd was much higher than about 750 vehicles per hour. An extra 100 per hour would be a 13% increase.

 

---------- Post added 16-09-2016 at 10:24 ----------

 

So you & SCC might as well just flick us a V

 

And the Government.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Justin Smith

[geared]

Is it even possible to challenge the developers traffic assessment?

 

Does anyone even check over the numbers to make sure the impact isn't being understated?

[Justin Smith]

Is it even possible to challenge the developers traffic assessment?

 

Does anyone even check over the numbers to make sure the impact isn't being understated?

 

Reading between the lines I don`t think anyone, other than those stuck in the jams, is bothered. The council seem to be saying even if they were bothered, which I very much doubt they are (unless I`ve completely misunderstood Planner1`s posts), they couldn`t stop it because the developers will just appeal to the Government. And you can bet your **** they`re not bothered. The motivation for my research is partly curiosity and partly so we can say we told them so (as we`re whiling away the time in the interminable queue) ! Lastly, as you said, even if they could be stopped from building a development which will increase the traffic by 10% or more, they`d just build a smaller one, then a few years later apply to build another one......

Edited September 16, 2016 by Justin Smith

[geared]

Like Planner1 said it's a system designed to give a yes to developers so there's only so much the council can do.

 

Does seem like some things are self-cert though and obviously that can be open to abuse.

[LeMaquis]

I did a bit of research at the Leppings Lane junction. It`s actually as bad as I`d feared.

The light cycle there takes about 1min 20 seconds, for that time Middlewood Rd is on green for about 25 seconds. The highest number of vehicles which got through (to go straight on down Parkside Rd lane) was 13, and generally it was about 10, sometimes as low as 5 or 6. I`d say an average of 10 would be about right.

 

If ever the expression "get a life" were appropriate.....

 

The point you're missing - or ignoring - is that we have to build new homes. They can't all be city centre flats or in new towns. We have to build in suburban locations in existing cities and that means that we have to build out in the sticks and thereby create commuter traffic. I'm sure that at some point in history your home was a field or idyllic rural haven of peace and tranquility where little bunnies frolicked in halcyon meadows.

 

I'd like to know if you oppose all new homes or just this one because it might add a minute or two to your journey to work. If it's the latter you're a nimby who's not bothered if other areas get clogged up a bit more. If it's the former then maybe you could tell us how to solve the housing crisis.

[Justin Smith]

If ever the expression "get a life" were appropriate.....

 

The point you're missing - or ignoring - is that we have to build new homes. They can't all be city centre flats or in new towns. We have to build in suburban locations in existing cities and that means that we have to build out in the sticks and thereby create commuter traffic. I'm sure that at some point in history your home was a field or idyllic rural haven of peace and tranquility where little bunnies frolicked in halcyon meadows.

 

I'd like to know if you oppose all new homes or just this one because it might add a minute or two to your journey to work. If it's the latter you're a nimby who's not bothered if other areas get clogged up a bit more. If it's the former then maybe you could tell us how to solve the housing crisis.

 

"Get a life", you`re joking aren`t you ! I find research very interesting, I have done a lot for my website, though I accept that`s definitely far more widely read and more influential (and therefore more satisfying) than what I`ve done here. Research is even more satisfying when it proves "the powers that be" are wrong and / or deliberately trying to hide things. I have a strong sense of curiosity so I find research exceptionally satisfying.

 

As a number of others have said the Oughtibridge mill site is fine for new houses, it`s not like I`m objecting just for the sake of it or I`d rather look at countryside than a housing estate (though I, along with most others, would rather look at the countryside.....). But that`s provided the infrastructure is improved to cope with it. School places, doctors at the health centre etc etc, and, most obviously, the roads which are already full at peak time. Bearing the latter in mind, do you think the developers should significantly contribute towards the cost of a new road (specifically the Middlewood to Claywheels link) or not ? If you say NO, my question would be why should the developers make money out of other people`s misery ? And it is miserable sat in traffic for hours a week. Might I also suggest that a negative answer would indicate you probably don`t drive along Middlewood road in the peak hours.......

Edited September 16, 2016 by Justin Smith

[Cyclone]

I (for one), say no. I think you're a nimby as suggested by LeMaquis.

 

You make some very creative uses of the numbers to try to prove that a negligible increase in car numbers will be some sort of disaster.

 

It's 200 odd cars a day that are being added, not all travelling by car, not all heading into town and by your own count middlewood Rd already runs at >600/hr.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Cyclone

[semerpus]

I (for one), say no. I think you're a nimby as suggested by LeMaquis.

 

You make some very creative uses of the numbers to try to prove that a negligible increase in car numbers will be some sort of disaster.

 

It's 200 odd cars a day that are being added, not all travelling by car, not all heading into town and by your own count middlewood Rd already runs at >600/hr.

 

Guess I'm a NIMBY too then ... despite stating in numerous posts on here that I have no objection whatsoever to the actual houses being built.

 

What I do object to is the total lack of investment in any infrastructure improvements

 

200 odd cars a day? They are building over 300 houses so you can bet your last pound almost every house will have at least one car and others multiple.

 

Along with the further proposed housing developments at Deepcar & Stocksbridge the traffic will continue to get worse. Surely prevention is better than cure

 

What I do object to is being screwed over by private developers.. they aren't building new houses out of kindness, they aren't building much needed social housing but a development which they stand to make a great big fat wedge of cash out of and existing residents can just suffer the consequences as they line their pockets and to hell with them